bobmac
Major Champion
This thread is about Jame's thoughts so I'm not going to argue with you
My swing thoughts - by James
- Thread starter JustOne
- Start date
This thread is about Jame's thoughts so I'm not going to argue with you
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
In not so many words, swing between the 2 lines and keep your head still ?
I can show 1000's of swings that are higher and 1000's that are lower but in terms of a 'contol' swing (as in a base example for an experiment) then yes I think that's a reasonable objective.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Apart from the fact that James has posted in the forum, therefore is inviting comment....
James.
What's your opinion about the (exact) phrase 'keep the head still'?
Potentially dangerous?
What would you suggest? Quiet?
BTW. How still is this, apparently rather good, golfer's head? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsrovFJ3o9I
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
It's better than the phrase "Wag your head around like a dog's tail"
I didn't notice that Bob had written that as I was looking at the swing plane part of his post, I don't know if it was just a simple turn of phrase or something more 'leading' but it's of no consequence. I said earlier that Robert Rock's head moves forwards and downwards so I know where I stand.
The head moves in the swing, the 'ideal' would be to make a good turn to limit any 'unnecessary' movement.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
This looks to me like a severe overexaggeration to emphasise his point. A hip slide is a dangerous thing as it can lead to thinning the ball or carving shots way out to the right as when the clubhead passes the ball it is still wide open due to the hands not catching up. Below is a link to McIroy's swing, widely regarded as one of the best swings in the game and the key move is the hip ROTATION through impact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t55f0qVLYj8
richart
Major Champion
Steve, the pro at my Club has taken up teaching a one plane swing in the last two years. Goes out to see Jim Hardy in the States two or three times a year, and has been getting great results with his teaching. I didn't realise I had a one plane swing, but I am not his best pupil as the posture required to swing effectively kills my back.
Next time you are at the Club, you should have a chat with him James. He is just as enthusiastic as you about the golf swing (talks a lot).
Next time you are at the Club, you should have a chat with him James. He is just as enthusiastic as you about the golf swing (talks a lot).
bobmac
Major Champion
I was of course talking in the context of the thread about a lateral movement of the head on the backswing which should be avoided to prevent a sway onto the right side, not something I'm sure James would teach.....or would you think that keeping the head still on the backswing is 'dangerous' too?
If you can see any lateral movement of my head on my video, you're a better man than me.
(Note to myself........... must be more precise in my postings to avoid unwanted criticism, especially on someone else's thread.)
Head movement; Youtube any of the top golfers and you will see head movement. In some cases there is a fair bit of movement, inc dipping, but in almost every example the head position at impact is pretty close to its start point. Tiger used to do it loads, and surprisingly when he was at his very peak.
Hip slide; again, Youtube the top guys. Its there to a greater or lesser extent with all of them. But drive4show makes a valid point... my bad shots are when I've slid too far too early and are a thin or a low slice.
As with any element of any swing (and they all have stars earning millions from them), get it wrong and it can be ugly.
Hip slide; again, Youtube the top guys. Its there to a greater or lesser extent with all of them. But drive4show makes a valid point... my bad shots are when I've slid too far too early and are a thin or a low slice.
As with any element of any swing (and they all have stars earning millions from them), get it wrong and it can be ugly.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
With driver McIlroy swings to the right more than just about anyone on Tour with an HSP in excess of 10 degrees to the right, so I didn't understand the point you're trying to make :thup:
I think this link to McIlroys stats still works, his HSP is as high as 13.8 degrees
http://cdn.thesandtrap.com/2/24/24773189_ScreenShot2011-11-11at1.56.34pm.PNG
You can see his left hip moves closer to the target here...
[video=youtube;LHAp_-mEhQo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHAp_-mEhQo[/video]
I agree the video you referred to could well be exaggerated and that much slide might or might not be good for your own swing.. but it happens, that's the point of the vid. As I said earlier Quiros doesn't have a big hip slide... but he has one.
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JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
(Note to myself........... must be more precise in my postings to avoid unwanted criticism, especially on someone else's thread.)
I wouldn't worry, I'm not worried by it. :thup: Post what you want to post :thup:
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Watching that Video its interesting how far Rory dips his head in the downswing, look at it's position against the trees in the background. His forward hip move is noticeable if you look at the relative position in relation to the distant golfer (in white) at the top then at impact.
P.S.
James, this is a great thread.
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D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Brian
Agreed that a weight transfer to the left is required to generate power but the end frame in your video shows McIlroy's left leg straight and his hips have hardly moved in front of the ball position but he has completed a massive rotation.
James....HSP??? Don't know that acronym
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Brian
Agreed that a weight transfer to the left is required to generate power but the end frame in your video shows McIlroy's left leg straight and his hips have hardly moved in front of the ball position but he has completed a massive rotation.
James....HSP??? Don't know that acronym
Wasn't my video, I was just taken by the head dip and forward move. Rory is so impressive for his age.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
James....HSP??? Don't know that acronym
It's Horizontal Swing Plane, (5th column) if his swing plane was lined up down the line it would be 0.
He swings out at about 10, up at about 4 giving a true path of about 6. If you look at how much he hits UP it is very random, as low at 1.2 degrees and as high as 8. Of course in these figures he could be messing with tee heights or even ball position which is why we look at the average stats as they represent and ongoing pattern to his shots... which normally end up to the LEFT of center.. an 'over-draw'.
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D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Is this measured from a horizontal line through his hips?
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
It's just trackman measuring the plane of the swingpath, it doesn't measure whether he's aiming straight and swinging out (away from his body), or lined up closed (and swinging along his body line) which I think has always been a weakness in trackman as it should show your AIM. In my opinion. I would say that is possibly why many pros are also using K Vest nowadays to really see what they are doing. One technology compliments the other.
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JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
3) The Shanks
There are lots of videos out there about shanking, some say there are two ways to shank some say three so already there's some confusion... there's several different ways, that's all you need to know, but one thing ultimately is the cause and that is the club is further away from you at impact than you want it to be.
There are several ways that this can happen, some are easier to fix that others and some are harder to identify and fix, but we need to identify what you are doing to have the club further away from you than you want it to be.
A basic reason is quite simply that you are falling forward onto your toes, this means that the hands are moving closer to the ball and so is the hosel. It's a basic reason but a hard one to spot. Often only the player can feel this one as the club only need to be pushed forwards by 3/4 of an inch and it's a shank.
A second reason is that your hands are too close to your body to start with, then when you swing your hands move slightly away from you, and so does the hosel. Jim Furyk is a good example of this, his hands are UBER close to his thighs at address... and he shanks occasionally.
A third reason is that you spin your hips so much that your right hip turns closer to the ball leaving no space for your hands so they get squeezed closer to the ball, and so does the hosel.... erm, Jim Furyk is guilty of this LOL and he shanks occasionally.
Good time for a video of Jim's swing... as you can see at address his hands are very close to his thighs so if they move away from him just slightly on the downswing he's going to shank it. He can avoid that happening by steepening the shaft but that's a compensation and a power loss.... he's also not a long hitter....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKaMxgFx5_w
You can see that on the downswing his right hip gets close to being in the way, it's uber cramped, if anything he just raises a half inch in his backswing to create that vital movement away from the ball that stops him shanking more often.
Here's one that shows his driver swing... notice Peter Kostis says there's no driving of his body towards the golf ball? That's because he CAN'T. If his hands move away from him just one inch then he'll hit the ball off the heel... or the hosel if it's an iron. Again you can quite clearly see here that his hands are very close to his thighs, the tiny lift of the head in the backswing and just how close the hands pass to his right hip on the downswing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDGq8os1GQ
So that's 3 quick reasons why people shank: weight on the toes, hands too close to the thighs and a spinning right hip getting in the way on the downswing.
The cure for the weight on the toes is not to fall forwards onto your toes obviously! but people tend to do this when they don't feel they can get to the ball in the first place, some people are standing too upright others have the club too close to their thighs or the hands (shaft of the club) too upright. Not easy to identify. A couple of things you can try is to address the ball right out of the hosel of the club in the first place, then you'll KNOW you will be reaching the ball and will focus on moving further away from the ball on your downswing, kind of a 'fight or flight' reaction.. back off or shank it. Another thing you can do is make sure that you start your downswing with a feeling of pressing your left heel into the ground, you're simply not going to let the weight get onto your toes.
The second problem with the hands close to the thighs at address is easy to change, just address the ball in a good posture (you don't just want to reach out for the ball) with your hands a good 4-5 inches away from your thighs... a classic position would be something like that of Luke Donald, as you can see, unlike Furyk, he creates some space between the club and his thighs so that the club has some space to swing back down unhindered.
(nb: a common reason why people have their hands too close to their thighs is TOO MUCH knee bend at address)
The third problem where the hips spin is fixed (again) by making sure you have enough space at address BUT also by making sure you move a little to the LEFT in transition to create some space for the club to swing down into, get a little weight to your left side so that your right hip can't possibly get in the way. You can't just stand still and spin your hips else you'll have no space between your right hip and the ball to swing your hands down... ala Furyk (I seem to be picking on him lately) he makes it work though with exquisite timing but still gets it wrong sometimes.
Here's a video by Leadbetter....
(note: he does suggest that people who fall forward go more to the heels but that often just makes them fall forwards more as they feel even further away from the ball!, but other than that i like the vid)
What is interesting is that he's a PRIME CANDIDATE for shanking himself, just look how close he has his hands to his thighs at address and just how much CLOSER he has to get them through impact... there's literally no room for error there... anyway, the vid....
[video=youtube;y9JvY8-vQ4A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JvY8-vQ4A[/video]
There are lots of videos out there about shanking, some say there are two ways to shank some say three so already there's some confusion... there's several different ways, that's all you need to know, but one thing ultimately is the cause and that is the club is further away from you at impact than you want it to be.
There are several ways that this can happen, some are easier to fix that others and some are harder to identify and fix, but we need to identify what you are doing to have the club further away from you than you want it to be.
A basic reason is quite simply that you are falling forward onto your toes, this means that the hands are moving closer to the ball and so is the hosel. It's a basic reason but a hard one to spot. Often only the player can feel this one as the club only need to be pushed forwards by 3/4 of an inch and it's a shank.
A second reason is that your hands are too close to your body to start with, then when you swing your hands move slightly away from you, and so does the hosel. Jim Furyk is a good example of this, his hands are UBER close to his thighs at address... and he shanks occasionally.
A third reason is that you spin your hips so much that your right hip turns closer to the ball leaving no space for your hands so they get squeezed closer to the ball, and so does the hosel.... erm, Jim Furyk is guilty of this LOL and he shanks occasionally.
Good time for a video of Jim's swing... as you can see at address his hands are very close to his thighs so if they move away from him just slightly on the downswing he's going to shank it. He can avoid that happening by steepening the shaft but that's a compensation and a power loss.... he's also not a long hitter....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKaMxgFx5_w
You can see that on the downswing his right hip gets close to being in the way, it's uber cramped, if anything he just raises a half inch in his backswing to create that vital movement away from the ball that stops him shanking more often.
Here's one that shows his driver swing... notice Peter Kostis says there's no driving of his body towards the golf ball? That's because he CAN'T. If his hands move away from him just one inch then he'll hit the ball off the heel... or the hosel if it's an iron. Again you can quite clearly see here that his hands are very close to his thighs, the tiny lift of the head in the backswing and just how close the hands pass to his right hip on the downswing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDGq8os1GQ
So that's 3 quick reasons why people shank: weight on the toes, hands too close to the thighs and a spinning right hip getting in the way on the downswing.
The cure for the weight on the toes is not to fall forwards onto your toes obviously! but people tend to do this when they don't feel they can get to the ball in the first place, some people are standing too upright others have the club too close to their thighs or the hands (shaft of the club) too upright. Not easy to identify. A couple of things you can try is to address the ball right out of the hosel of the club in the first place, then you'll KNOW you will be reaching the ball and will focus on moving further away from the ball on your downswing, kind of a 'fight or flight' reaction.. back off or shank it. Another thing you can do is make sure that you start your downswing with a feeling of pressing your left heel into the ground, you're simply not going to let the weight get onto your toes.
The second problem with the hands close to the thighs at address is easy to change, just address the ball in a good posture (you don't just want to reach out for the ball) with your hands a good 4-5 inches away from your thighs... a classic position would be something like that of Luke Donald, as you can see, unlike Furyk, he creates some space between the club and his thighs so that the club has some space to swing back down unhindered.
(nb: a common reason why people have their hands too close to their thighs is TOO MUCH knee bend at address)
The third problem where the hips spin is fixed (again) by making sure you have enough space at address BUT also by making sure you move a little to the LEFT in transition to create some space for the club to swing down into, get a little weight to your left side so that your right hip can't possibly get in the way. You can't just stand still and spin your hips else you'll have no space between your right hip and the ball to swing your hands down... ala Furyk (I seem to be picking on him lately) he makes it work though with exquisite timing but still gets it wrong sometimes.
Here's a video by Leadbetter....
(note: he does suggest that people who fall forward go more to the heels but that often just makes them fall forwards more as they feel even further away from the ball!, but other than that i like the vid)
What is interesting is that he's a PRIME CANDIDATE for shanking himself, just look how close he has his hands to his thighs at address and just how much CLOSER he has to get them through impact... there's literally no room for error there... anyway, the vid....
[video=youtube;y9JvY8-vQ4A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9JvY8-vQ4A[/video]
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Val
Ryder Cup Winner
It's not so much his head its his body in general and one of the reasons he generates so much power. Many top pros have this move however Rory's is probably the most noticeable.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Well, yes, thats right. Where the head goes the body will follow but it's very noticeable in that video.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Re: Shanks.
Good thread James. I suffered them for a while and the cause was my right hip blocking the club.
Another cause can be swinging out to in.
Good thread James. I suffered them for a while and the cause was my right hip blocking the club.
Another cause can be swinging out to in.
