My swing thoughts - by James

[Crow]

Totally off topic but I spotted this instrument of torture after watching one of the videos on the thread.

Somehow I can't imagine it's made the guy's fortune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7PBj95bvk8

 

[Foxholer]

Totally off topic but I spotted this instrument of torture after watching one of the videos on the thread.

Somehow I can't imagine it's made the guy's fortune.

I bet he makes a few Rand from repairing broken shafts though!

Not all that dis-similar to the Explanar, just allowing for the different path (as opposed to plane) on the down-swing

I actually saw and used an interesting aid yesterday - course wasn't open so we went to the inside (teaching) bay. It's a grip with a shaft with a U shaped gadget that sits on top of the right shoulder at end of back-swing. Then the idea is that you keep it there until the right elbow is about at hip level. It gets the feeling of the correct sequencing - hip shift (not rotate) first before arms swing through. Certainly helped prevent my tendency to cast slightly.

 

[Alex1975]

Hi James,

As much as I respect your opinion I am going to question it here. When I first read and commented on this post I had not herd the video, only watched it.

I looked on the net for other hip slide videos and for the most part it is all about ways not to do it, and I am not talking on the way back.

Here are my issues with slide over rotate:

If you slide your hips as your first move you are moving your body away from your hands so changing your impact position, it becomes a moving target to catch up, your head gets behind the ball so that when you do make impact you are taking loft of the club and much much worse you have the club head open as you are now bent back with your hips forward, fooling yourself that your weight has shifted. You hit the ball and struggle to make a good follow though and stagger back as your tummy is through but your head it back.


Rotate and the path is starting to close as is the face of the club from the first move, your hands are not rushing to get back to the ball as you are balanced and in time, your not moving your mid rift away from the ball. You have far more power as you are hitting the ball with your core not moving your core away from the ball. At impact your hands and hips are together and timing is good. Follow though is natural and balanced and feels strong.

The feeling of having my head behind the ball at impact and looking down the target line feels strong with the slide but feel is not real and it cost my this weekend.

I am not telling you facts, I am telling you how I feel and what I have seen. I am interested in what you have to say about it. If I have not moved my hips away from the target on the way back why the hell am I moving them towards the target on the way through?

Alex

 

[JustOne]

Here are my issues with slide over rotate:

If you slide your hips as your first move you are moving your body away from your hands so changing your impact position, it becomes a moving target to catch up, your head gets behind the ball so that when you do make impact you are taking loft of the club and much much worse you have the club head open as you are now bent back with your hips forward, fooling yourself that your weight has shifted. You hit the ball and struggle to make a good follow though and stagger back as your tummy is through but your head it back.

I'll cover this paragraph Alex as it's really the one to focus on.

The hips slide shallows the angle of attack so that you don't hit down too steeply. It will put loft ON the club not take it off.

This move is less with a one-plane swing as you're already more on plane.

Yes, the club face would be open if you hit the ball in the correct place (it's meant to be), the ball would start a little to the right and draw back to the target.

The hips move left (even though they never went right) to shallow the angle of attack but also to provide a platform for you to move your weight on to so that you create more power, like a boxer moving forwards into his punch. He doesn't step back before he punches you, he might 'brace' before it's lights out

In a 2-plane swing you also have to rotate the hips seperate to the shoulders (x-factor) which you don't do in a one-plane swing as the arms aren't generating the power, the pivot rotation is. X-factor has been shown to be not only hard on the body but hard to time and has to go hand in hand with a lot of other complex moves eg, head moving behind the ball in the backswing.

There are 2 different actions which is why you'll see a lot of conflicting advice both on the web and the forum. I tend to judge each swing for it's own merits even though I have a pattern I like :thup

 

[JustOne]

One for me.....

[video=youtube;i4sT7CXR8WQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=i4sT7CXR8WQ[/video]

 

[SocketRocket]

One for me.....

[video=youtube;i4sT7CXR8WQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=i4sT7CXR8WQ[/video]

Thats an interesting lecture JO. The problem for me is all the angles are so precise, I just cant see how anyone can return close enough to say the 45 deg VSP such that you will be able to produce repeatable outcomes.

 

[Foxholer]

Thats an interesting lecture JO. The problem for me is all the angles are so precise, I just cant see how anyone can return close enough to say the 45 deg VSP such that you will be able to produce repeatable outcomes.

Good 2D explanation of part of what D-Plane shows. Also good to explain numbers from Trackman.

Don't see a problem in the precision of the angles. With a consistent swing it will be the player's experience that makes the adjustment to get them 'correct'. There is absolutely no way that any player can say 'the face was dead square' or 'face was a 2* open' but they can see the ball go straight, or not, and the experience will allow them to groove that feeling. That's also the reason that Pro advocates of the 'old' ball flight laws 'unconsciously' made the adjustment required to set the face at the correct angle to work.

Does challenge/disprove the validity of the 'keep the club-face square' approach though! Divots don't lie either.

 

[JustOne]

Does challenge/disprove the validity of the 'keep the club-face square' approach though!

Precisely. If someone is teaching you to have the clubface square they are basically setting you up to have 'issues' that will need to be fixed in the future... but they won't actually be able to fix them as they'll keep implying that you need the face square.... :clap: As an instructor it's a cool way of printing your own money

 

[SocketRocket]

Don't see a problem in the precision of the angles. With a consistent swing it will be the player's experience that makes the adjustment to get them 'correct'. There is absolutely no way that any player can say 'the face was dead square' or 'face was a 2* open' but they can see the ball go straight, or not,

So, someone hits the ball and it pushes right. Was the problem that the shaft was not returned precisely to 60 deg VSP; was the swingpath to the right with the face open, did their hips block the arms, did they open the clubface and fail to return it square, was their alignment out, was it a compound of all these things? Oh! and they dont have trackman to tell them. Divots wont always tell whats happening.

I think the video was very interesting and informative and it was to give instructors a better understanding. If they have Trackman type data then this type of understanding could be helpful. For the average Joe, I think not.

 

[JustOne]

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I agree SR. Likewise if someone hits a 20yrd slice how can you tell that they didn't swing perfectly if you've set them up that way

 

[SocketRocket]

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I agree SR. Likewise if someone hits a 20yrd slice how can you tell that they didn't swing perfectly if you've set them up that way

Fair point.