Muirfield, women, the R&A and The Open

[Deleted member 15344]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-36340197

Again the country hasn't voted it's members of a golf club who could be different nationalities

 

[Birchy]

The difference is, that these ladies clubs were formed as an answer to a club policy by their male counterparts, because that's what the ladies had to do if they wanted to play golf and have a club life as well. Because they weren't allowed in. Show me the one exclusively male only golfclub that was formed as a response to a ladies lcub already in existence, because the guys weren't allowed in and I am willing to agree with you.

That's the one I was waiting for, always a popular feature on these threads :rofl:

Great reasoning, I imagine they all merged once rules changed and ladies were admitted? Thought not

 

[JakeWS]

Nope still not seeing the connection with the Royal family and Muirfield

Is there discrimination within the Royal Family ?

A female can marry the King and become a Queen, however a man who marries the Queen may not become King.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-36340197

Blah blah blah

There are single sex private clubs for both genders in all areas of life and they are perfectly entitled to do what they want. Get over it.

My home club has lots of female members that were quite happy to pay a reduced subscription and not play on a Saturday morning. Now due to all the liberal do-gooders who enforced sexual equality, they now pay the same as male members and have access to the course whenever they want but they have no interest in playing on a Saturday morning because they have other things they would rather do instead.

They are over the moon about it

Works for me though because they now subsidise my subs :thup:

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

What about all the clubs that discriminate on wealth that you can't play because they are members only and us mere mortals can't afford to join them?

Augusta, Queenwood, Skibo, Loch Lomond, all the upscale US country clubs that host Majors such as Shinnecock and Congressional. I don't hear anyone banging on about those clubs.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What about all the clubs that discriminate on wealth that you can't play because they are members only and us mere mortals can't afford to join them?

Augusta, Queenwood, Skibo, Loch Lomond, all the upscale US country clubs that host Majors such as Shinnecock and Congressional. I don't hear anyone banging on about those clubs.

I don't think that's something you can compare

You aren't stopped from joining because of what sex you are. You aren't stopped from joining - you have a choice to join it.

It's not discrimination

Just like Aston Martin don't discriminate if you can't afford one of their cars

 

[Foxholer]

Just read about their tradition of playing foursomes. Why would anybody want to join a golf club where you only ever get to play half a round? Seems to me that the reason for being a member there must be for the perceived social status it affords rather than to enjoy the golf.

You obviously haven't ever experienced the joys (and pressure) of Foursomes!

Solves the problem of slow play (and short daylight hours) too!

As for the actual decision...regrettable, but quite likely simply a vote to ditch The Open! However, as a private club, they are entitled to determine their own destiny! Pleased the R&A reacted as it did, and quickly, to minimise any possible damage to 'the game' though.

 

[Qwerty]

The difference is, that these ladies clubs were formed as an answer to a club policy by their male counterparts, because that's what the ladies had to do if they wanted to play golf and have a club life as well. Because they weren't allowed in. Show me the one exclusively male only golfclub that was formed as a response to a ladies lcub already in existence, because the guys weren't allowed in and I am willing to agree with you.

In this case is "The Difference" relevant? Im struggling to form an opinion based on the reasons of clubs being formed 60, 70,maybe 100 years ago.

Id agree with you also if The HCEG weren't allowing Ladies to play the course or if Muirfield was the only course in the area.
If I thought that anyone was being denied a chance to play the game, or denied the opportunity of becoming a member of a local club that would meet their requirements It wouldn't sit right with me.

As I see it though theres plenty of opportunity for anyone that wants to play the game and find a club that's suitable for them. I'm not sure if a problem exists in Germany but in the UK all the single sex golf clubs are in golfing hotspots with an abundance of courses/clubs so Theres something for everyone, I don't see anyone being denied anything of any significance.

 

[Qwerty]

I don't think that's something you can compare

You aren't stopped from joining because of what sex you are. You aren't stopped from joining - you have a choice to join it.

It's not discrimination

let's be honest Phil.. Wayne the Bricklayer isn't getting in! and the difference in this instance is that if the Muirfield vote swung the other way they would have to admit lady members (as did Augusta) not just allow them to apply then bin the application because they aren't well connected or earn 100k + pa.

Its Their club though and their rules, Maybe it is discrimination but it isn't something I'll lose any sleep over.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It is discrimination Phil because let's be honest... Wayne the Bricklayer isn't getting in! and the difference in this instance is that if the Muirfield vote swung the other way they would have to admit lady members (as did Augusta) not just allow them to apply then bin the application because they aren't well connected or earn 100k + pa.

It's not discrimination at all - if Wayne the Brickie can afford to join and followed the joining process and a spot was available then I'm sure he would be allowed to join. If they say no because of his job then it's discrimination

And if they allow ladies to join Murifield then they would go through the same application process as a man

It is their club and their rules - and right now their rules mean that they can no longer host the Open

It's rules IMO that are one of the biggest negatives in regards golf ( same with any same sex club ) and do nothing to help grow the game. It just adds to the perceived image that golf is full of dinosaurs and snobs.

 

[chippa1909]

A female can marry the King and become a Queen, however a man who marries the Queen may not become King.

So much like the Peter Alliss point about marrying their way in!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I don't think that's something you can compare

You aren't stopped from joining because of what sex you are. You aren't stopped from joining - you have a choice to join it.

It's not discrimination

Just like Aston Martin don't discriminate if you can't afford one of their cars

I've never seen any of those clubs on the 2fore1 scheme or offering cheap twilight deals so basically I am discriminated against......they don't want me on their hallowed turf

 

[Capella]

As I see it though theres plenty of opportunity for anyone that wants to play the game and find a club that's suitable for them. I'm not sure if a problem exists in Germany but in the UK all the single sex golf clubs are in golfing hotspots with an abundance of courses/clubs so Theres something for everyone, I don't see anyone being denied anything of any significance.

There are no single sex golf clubs in Germany. I doubt there ever have been, but surely not after WW2. The whole concept is pretty inconceivable here. Maybe that is why it leaves me so puzzled. Golf was a very elitist and exclusive sport in Germany until about 20 years ago, with outrages entrance fees for golfclubs, no visitors allowed unless they were members of another golf club etc. So definitely not a sport that everybody could play or even try. But as far as I know it never was gender specific.

 

[Hobbit]

It's not discrimination at all - if Wayne the Brickie can afford to join and followed the joining process and a spot was available then I'm sure he would be allowed to join. If they say no because of his job then it's discrimination

And if they allow ladies to join Murifield then they would go through the same application process as a man

It is their club and their rules - and right now their rules mean that they can no longer host the Open

It's rules IMO that are one of the biggest negatives in regards golf ( same with any same sex club ) and do nothing to help grow the game. It just adds to the perceived image that golf is full of dinosaurs and snobs.

Why do a number of clubs still ask you to declare your occupation?

I'm sure its not just to bulk up the application form.

 

[Foxholer]

I've never seen any of those clubs on the 2fore1 scheme or offering cheap twilight deals...

They don't need to because their income is sufficient!

... so basically I am discriminated against....

No you are not!

.....they don't want me on their hallowed turf

Perhaps! But that's not necessarily 'discrimination'!

 

[Deleted member 21258]

It is their club and their rules - and right now their rules mean that they can no longer host the Open

It's rules IMO that are one of the biggest negatives in regards golf ( same with any same sex club ) and do nothing to help grow the game. It just adds to the perceived image that golf is full of dinosaurs and snobs.

Completely agree with this.:thup:

 

[Qwerty]

It's not discrimination at all - if Wayne the Brickie can afford to join and followed the joining process and a spot was available then I'm sure he would be allowed to join..

Totally sure?

As I said ..... If the vote swung the other way The HCEG would have to been seen to be admitting lady members..
Do you see many builders vans on the car parks of the high end Surrey courses on a Saturday afternoon?

 

[Val]

Nope still not seeing the connection with the Royal family and Muirfield

Is there discrimination within the Royal Family ?

Are you serious? Of course there is

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

They don't need to because their income is sufficient!



No you are not!



Perhaps! But that's not necessarily 'discrimination'!

If they won't allow me to play their course then it is a form of discrimination. Dress it up how you like.......race, creed, colour, sex, profession or whatever, it all amounts to the same thing.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Are you serious? Of course there is

A connection or discrimination within the Royal Family ?