Muirfield, women, the R&A and The Open

[GreiginFife]

Is Class Discrimination not a thing anymore then? Not always to do with money but many golf clubs still view certain social standings/origins/employment statuses with disdain.
A good friend of mine was rejected application at a prestigious club in Scotland due to being unemployed. He inherited a moderate amount of money in 2006 and made some wise investments that meant he hasn't had to work so he had to put unemployed in the occupation box on the application. Was he not discriminated against?
Forum sages please let me inform him that he wasn't and it was probably just his face that was wrong.

Class and social discrimination is nothing to do with gender, race or sexuality but is still rife.

On Muirfield, I don't think it's right but I also don't want to claim that I think the democratic right that has been exercised should be diluted due to political correctness or what is deemed socially acceptable.
The Open is a male dominated (I say that because a woman could play in it, by the rules) event which has been taken away from one male dominated club (not course which allows women to play). Which to an extent just sits a bit funny with me.

 

[Tommo21]

Just seems so out of sync with modern society it'd be great to hear the rational of the couple hundred that voted against change

I'm not buying that they used the vote as they don't want to stage The Open. If you didn't want to host it then withdraw, simple

I think, to them, the vote was more important that the open. It was never a factor.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I would suggest that it FAR more offensive to compare relatively moderate differences in wealth with genuine discrimination, and then reaffirm that point in an ongoing basis in the face of facts.

That being said, point taken and noted, thanks.

@Dave3498 - I agree with your last sentence, but not quite the first part. You're almost right though. 😜

Maybe you have led a nice sheltered life in leafy Surrey and never experienced discrimination based on wealth or social class. I however have so I am speaking from personal experience.

 

[TheDiablo]

Maybe you have led a nice sheltered life in leafy Surrey and never experienced discrimination based on wealth or social class. I however have so I am speaking from personal experience.

First bigotry, now prejudice! Delightful. Any more?

If you have experienced true discrimination in your life then I am sorry for you, it's something nobody in this day and age should have to go through. Not being allowed to play golf because you can't afford to join the club isn't social discrimination though, I hope you understand that at the very least.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

First bigotry, now prejudice! Delightful. Any more?

If you have experienced true discrimination in your life then I am sorry for you, it's something nobody in this day and age should have to go through. Not being allowed to play golf because you can't afford to join the club isn't social discrimination though, I hope you understand that at the very least.

You say it isn't social discrimination, I say it is. We have a difference of opinion....fair enough, I don't have any issue with that. I do have an issue with insults being thrown at me though.

You stick to your opinion and I'll stick to mine. I'm out on this topic now.

 

[Hickory_Hacker]

Irrespective of wealth ... There isn't anyone on this forum that could join the Honourable Chaps down at Muirfield and that's not discrimination it's just a fact :rofl:

3 cheers to them :cheers:

 

[hovis]

Discrimination some of you are saying?. how about women drink for free nights at pubs and clubs ?

there club their rules

 

[ColchesterFC]

I believe that the decision was taken by Muirfield after reading the R&A pace of play report. It is a well known fact that ladies have to sit down to go for a wee while men can do so while standing up. As a result it is quicker for men to take a jimmy riddle in the bushes behind the halfway hut without the need to sit or wipe and so the pace of play is maintained. Allowing lady members could have added 20 or even 30 seconds to the average round. And the cost of providing She-Wee's (google it if you don't know) to each potential lady member meant it was prohibitive to allow them to join.

N.B. Some or all of the above might well be totally made up

 

[ruff-driver]

I believe that the decision was taken by Muirfield after reading the R&A pace of play report. It is a well known fact that ladies have to sit down to go for a wee while men can do so while standing up. As a result it is quicker for men to take a jimmy riddle in the bushes behind the halfway hut without the need to sit or wipe and so the pace of play is maintained. Allowing lady members could have added 20 or even 30 seconds to the average round. And the cost of providing She-Wee's (google it if you don't know) to each potential lady member meant it was prohibitive to allow them to join.

N.B. Some or all of the above might well be totally made up

Constipation sherlock

 

[FairwayDodger]

Terrible decision, albeit one they were entitled to make. Great decision by the R&A, and the only thing they could do even though it means losing probably the best course from the open rota. It would have been several years before they hosted the open again anyway and it wouldn't surprise me if this issue is revisited before then. We may well find muirfield hosting the open round about the same time as it was next due anyway.

I had the pleasure of playing with a muirfield member yesterday and he was quite embarrassed and depressed about the whole situation. If just seven members had voted the other way it would have been a different story and a large majority voted for change so it's a bit harsh I think that the entire membership is being widely castigated.

 

[backwoodsman]

Terrible decision, albeit one they were entitled to make. Great decision by the R&A, and the only thing they could do even though it means losing probably the best course from the open rota. It would have been several years before they hosted the open again anyway and it wouldn't surprise me if this issue is revisited before then. We may well find muirfield hosting the open round about the same time as it was next due anyway.

I had the pleasure of playing with a muirfield member yesterday and he was quite embarrassed and depressed about the whole situation. If just seven members had voted the other way it would have been a different story and a large majority voted for change so it's a bit harsh I think that the entire membership is being widely castigated.

View attachment 19494

I entirely agree FD, although to be fair, the same point (Muirfield, poor decision but theirs to make; R&A, good decision and also theirs to make) was made lonnnnnnnng ago in the thread. The rest of it just rambled on into the realm of fatuousness & pigheadedness, as this kind of thread usually does.

I dare say you're right. A significant majority of members voted for change - they must be disappointed. As would anyone be who loses out effectively on a technicality.

 

[backwoodsman]

And a Ps: Has the GM site (link to the right ---->) got it wrong? They say 64% voted against ?? I thought it was 64% who voted for?

 

[FairwayDodger]

And a Ps: Has the GM site (link to the right ---->) got it wrong? They say 64% voted against ?? I thought it was 64% who voted for?

Yes. 64% voted for the change but a 2/3s majority was needed.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The decision has not gone down too well with the non golfing Scottish public.


http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-history-boys/

 

[freddielong]

This is one of those stories that I really hate being in the media because they spin it to suit their agenda.

Forget what the papers have said and think about what has actually happened here,

Ok you have a 250 year old men only club deciding to take a vote to allow Women (is that negative or positive, I would say positive )

You have the committee of that 250 year old men only club actively canvassing members to vote for the changes ( again positive)

You get a good majority of members voting in favour of the changes (again positive)

The only negative is they were 7 members short of the 2 thirds that they needed.

The club are being castigated for trying to make a positive change, ok it didn't quite happen but they definitely tried.

If you were a men's only club now and you were thinking about trying something similar but were not certain that you could get it through, would you try, I don't think I would.

This is a positive thing spun to be a negative story.

 

[Sats]

their club their rules



















and their hole they are digging fo themselves

Clever boy, I nearly took the bait there!

 

[Sats]

This is one of those stories that I really hate being in the media because they spin it to suit their agenda.

Forget what the papers have said and think about what has actually happened here,

Ok you have a 250 year old men only club deciding to take a vote to allow Women (is that negative or positive, I would say positive )

You have the committee of that 250 year old men only club actively canvassing members to vote for the changes ( again positive)

You get a good majority of members voting in favour of the changes (again positive)

The only negative is they were 7 members short of the 2 thirds that they needed.

The club are being castigated for trying to make a positive change, ok it didn't quite happen but they definitely tried.

If you were a men's only club now and you were thinking about trying something similar but were not certain that you could get it through, would you try, I don't think I would.

This is a positive thing spun to be a negative story.

I'll agree that it's positive that they've performed the vote. Negative that there are still dinosaurs who could do with some euthanasia or 9mm re-education. Negative that the minority won that vote.

All in all - I think golf needs to step up with the times, as does other institutes/sports/whatever that doesn't include people based upon sex, disability, race or religion.

 

[Hobbit]

Just a quick, off the cuff thought. The vote was about gender. The club have said no, i.e. discriminating against that gender. The club have brought the game into disrepute, their actions impacting way beyond the gates of Muirfield. How about the SGU kicking them out?

 

[patricks148]

Just a quick, off the cuff thought. The vote was about gender. The club have said no, i.e. discriminating against that gender. The club have brought the game into disrepute, their actions impacting way beyond the gates of Muirfield. How about the SGU kicking them out?

if the SGU were to chuck them out, surely that would set a president and all single sex clubs would have to be thrown out as well

 

[Deleted member 1740]

If Muirfield's membership is full at this present time, what are they supposed to do to allow female members in?

Ernie Els yesterday was on wireless talking about Muirfield and he said it's the best links track in the world and will be missed by many players on the tour.