Moderate/Faster swings?

[Orikoru]

Because a lot of people I know have chased length only to discover width! There are a few Pros who have done similar - Donald and Manassero spring to mind, Fitzpatrick is the poster boy for the counter argument.
Of course it is obvious that the closer you get to the green the shorter the next shot but length at the cost of control is just as clearly not a clever strategy.

That's just common sense though. When someone says hitting it longer is better, I don't think they need the caveat of 'not if it's out of bounds' every time, that's just obvious. If you can add length without being too wayward then definitely do it. If you can't then don't.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

I'm bored just now so I looked up the stats for all the PGA tour winners this year. This is a list of the winners and where they are ranked in driving distance. Some of them are 30+ yards behind McIlroy.


Homa 53rd
Hughes 101st
Kim 124th
Bradley 86th
McIlroy 1st
Power 91st
Henley 178th
Finau 68th
Svensson 170th
Rahm 6th
S Kim 103rd
Rahm 6th
Homa 53rd
Rose 173rd
Scheffler 28th
Rahm 6th
Kirk 19th

 

[Orikoru]

I'm bored just now so I looked up the stats for all the PGA tour winners this year. This is a list of the winners and where they are ranked in driving distance. Some of them are 30+ yards behind McIlroy.


Homa 53rd
Hughes 101st
Kim 124th
Bradley 86th
McIlroy 1st
Power 91st
Henley 178th
Finau 68th
Svensson 170th
Rahm 6th
S Kim 103rd
Rahm 6th
Homa 53rd
Rose 173rd
Scheffler 28th
Rahm 6th
Kirk 19th

So how do you think their driving distance relates to their handicaps? What the hell are we talking about?

 

[Deleted member 31467]

So how do you think their driving distance relates to their handicaps? What the hell are we talking about?

It's pretty simple really, you don't need to be long to win.

 

[Orikoru]

It's pretty simple really, you don't need to be long to win.

It was already pointed out to that all of those guys have incredible distance compared to the handicap golfers we were actually talking about. In a discussion of correlation between handicaps and driving distance in amateur club golfers, stats from the pro tour are completely irrelevant.

As I think @sunshine was trying to say, there are obviously exceptions but I'd expect a general trend that the lower handicappers hit the ball further than higher handicappers.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

It was already pointed out to that all of those guys have incredible distance compared to the handicap golfers we were actually talking about. In a discussion of correlation between handicaps and driving distance in amateur club golfers, stats from the pro tour are completely irrelevant.

As I think @sunshine was trying to say, there are obviously exceptions but I'd expect a general trend that the lower handicappers hit the ball further than higher handicappers.

No it's not irrelevant because the discussion is that longer is better. Well I have posted information showing that tour players who are short compared to their peers can and frequently do win against guys that hit the ball considerably further than them. Proves that distance isn't the be all and end all.

 

[Orikoru]

No it's not irrelevant because the discussion is that longer is better. Well I have posted information showing that tour players who are short compared to their peers can and frequently do win against guys that hit the ball considerably further than them. Proves that distance isn't the be all and end all.

Discussion was specifically about swing speed and handicaps. See this post here.

A pro who hits it 310 can beat a guy who hits it 340.. great but nothing to do with what we were talking about. Bringing it back even further the topic was about ball manufacturers categories for slow, medium & fast, and every single pro on the tour would be classed as fast - so it's now irrelevant twice over.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Discussion was specifically about swing speed and handicaps. See this post here.

A pro who hits it 310 can beat a guy who hits it 340.. great but nothing to do with what we were talking about. Bringing it back even further the topic was about ball manufacturers categories for slow, medium & fast, and every single pro on the tour would be classed as fast - so it's now irrelevant twice over.

It is exactly what we are talking about. I've given an example of a guy that hits the ball less than 300 beating a guy that hits it 330. How is that different to a guy that hits it 250 beating a guy that hits it 280? Does the ball know if it is being hit by a pro or an amateur? Their playing status is irrelevant, the thing being discussed is distance = automatically better which it clearly is not. There are too many other factors.

 

[Beezerk]

Christ, all I wanted was maybe someone from GM who does reviews to come on and say what they mean by slow/fast swing speeds

 

[Imurg]

Christ, all I wanted was maybe someone from GM who does reviews to come on and say what they mean by slow/fast swing speeds

You should know better by now

 

[Orikoru]

It is exactly what we are talking about. I've given an example of a guy that hits the ball less than 300 beating a guy that hits it 330. How is that different to a guy that hits it 250 beating a guy that hits it 280? Does the ball know if it is being hit by a pro or an amateur? Their playing status is irrelevant, the thing being discussed is distance = automatically better which it clearly is not. There are too many other factors.

View attachment 46736

I'm going with @sunshine - you don't know what correlation means.

 

[Slab]

There's a bloke I know hits the ball shorter than me and he's a better player than me... trouble is... I don't know if I'm the outlier or if its him

 

[sunshine]

There's a bloke I know hits the ball shorter than me and he's a better player than me... trouble is... I don't know if I'm the outlier or if its him

But what if he drove it past you on one hole? Would he have to surreptitiously hand you a tampon?

 

[sunshine]

I'm bored just now so I looked up the stats for all the PGA tour winners this year. This is a list of the winners and where they are ranked in driving distance. Some of them are 30+ yards behind McIlroy.


Homa 53rd
Hughes 101st
Kim 124th
Bradley 86th
McIlroy 1st
Power 91st
Henley 178th
Finau 68th
Svensson 170th
Rahm 6th
S Kim 103rd
Rahm 6th
Homa 53rd
Rose 173rd
Scheffler 28th
Rahm 6th
Kirk 19th

What’s the point of this list? They all hit it over 300 yards, but I’m not sure if you’re trying to prove or disprove you don’t understand the meaning of correlation.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

What’s the point of this list? They all hit it over 300 yards, but I’m not sure if you’re trying to prove or disprove you don’t understand the meaning of correlation.

You just proved how little you know. There is 60 yard difference between the longest and shortest hitters on the PGA tour.

 

[Albo]

You just proved how little you know. There is 60 yard difference between the longest and shortest hitters on the PGA tour.

I would suggest that in a one off event at that level anyone could win, a bit like your buddy who is usually shorter than you driving it past you a couple of times.
I would imagine that the world rankings would be a better barometer given this is over a longer period, to see where the longer/shorter hitters fall.
I certainly know the likes of Champ who hits the ball a mile aren’t up there in the rankings, but I’d have guessed there’s more longer hitters in the top 20 than shorter

 

[sunshine]

You just proved how little you know. There is 60 yard difference between the longest and shortest hitters on the PGA tour.

Is this another stat about correlation between handicap and distance?

How many of the people on your list of winners drive the ball less than 300 yards? I'd also suggest scoring average is a better metric to identify the top players on tour.

 

[Springveldt]

It's pretty simple really, you don't need to be long to win.

All of those guys are long? At that level it's simply who is hot that week with their approach and putting.

It's pretty obvious for a club golfer the quickest way to lower your handicap is to get longer off the tee while still keeping it in play. 99% of all club golfers would drop their index by a huge chunk if they gained 20 yards off the tee while still keeping it in play, as those 20 yards would also carry through to irons and instead of hitting 5 or 6 irons into a mid range par 4 they would be hitting an 8 or 9 iron in.

It's like winter tees, it's no surprise I shoot loads of rounds in the +1 to +4 range while during the summer the vast majority of my counting round will be in the +5 to +7 range.

I'm currently a 3.7 index and I'd say 95% of the guys that I've played with that are lower than me are also longer off the tee than me. Shotscope has me at 270 performance with an average of 245 so not massively long but not short either but they are always hitting in less club and can also reach par 5's in 2 while most of the time I can't.

 

[Jason.H]

Why do people always say that? That's like me saying "striking your irons better will bring your handicap down" and you reply "not if you're now sending it 20 yards through the back of the green". This is golf, there's obviously always a caveat and nothing is black and white.

Some always look for the negative
Actually I do flush it on the odd occasion and go long

 

[sunshine]

Some always look for the negative
Actually I do flush it on the odd occasion and go long

Flushing an iron and going long, especially a longer iron, is one of the most irritating things in golf!
I always assume I'm going to hit the ball properly. I'd never take an extra club on the basis I will mis-hit it, statistically it may be the right thing to do but it's planning to fail.