Mobile phone legal or not?

[Foxholer]

'They' perhaps including the likes of all authors of golf psychology/thinking books who seem to think that managing uncertainty in your head is pretty darned important to being able to play well and to your ability. And as these books seem to sell well then there must be plenty of us out there who ascribe to that notion.

"Us and Them
And after all we're only ordinary men"

The rest of the song - and album in fact - is pretty appropriate, even today!

 

[clubchamp98]

And that is the reason they are popular. It helps remove the doubt.

If it's 130 front 145 middle and 160 back you know that a nice steady swing of something you average 140ish with will give you a good chance.

Anyway. Can anyone think of anything else to be added or disagree with anything up there already?

Would knowing the slope up or down really help the average golfer //wind speed etc all this tech will confuse more than help . We should ban the lot in comps or use what you like it would remove all the dought.

 

[clubchamp98]

A change of barometric pressure has an effect on wind. So too the density of air. (Ever hit a ball in Colorado Springs?)
Could you have a Barometer on your trolley and not part of your DMD. what about a wind sock if its a separate item would it be illegal.==== I know it seems silly but is it possible if so why ban it from DMDs.

 

[palindromicbob]

Would knowing the slope up or down really help the average golfer //wind speed etc all this tech will confuse more than help . We should ban the lot in comps or use what you like it would remove all the dought.

Untill we have bifurcation of the rules (hopefuly won't happen). There is no such thing as the "average" golfer within the rules. They simply consider things that might affect play. It shouldn't confuse because already this data should not be accessed. The rules already blanket ban DMD's. They can only be used when a local rule is in effect.

Could you have a Barometer on your trolley and not part of your DMD. what about a wind sock if its a separate item would it be illegal.==== I know it seems silly but is it possible if so why ban it from DMDs.

No you can not have a seperate barometer or a wind sock they are artificial devices and aren't traditionally excepted so breech rule 14-3 hence why they should also (by my logic) deem a DMD with the feature non-comforming.

Except as provided in the Rules, during a stipulated round the player must not use any artificial device or unusual equipment (see*Appendix IV for detailed specifications and interpretations),*or use any equipment in an unusual manner:
a. That might assist him in making a*stroke or in his play; or
b. For the purpose of gauging or measuring distance or conditions that might affect his play; or
c. That might assist him in gripping the club, except that:
(i) gloves may be worn provided that they are plain gloves;
(ii) resin, powder and drying or moisturising agents may be used; and
(iii) a towel or handkerchief may be wrapped around the grip.

 

[Spuddy]

Would knowing the slope up or down really help the average golfer //wind speed etc all this tech will confuse more than help . We should ban the lot in comps or use what you like it would remove all the dought.

How does it confuse? You're taking away one of the variables, which can only be a good thing.

 

[atticusfinch]

A change of barometric pressure has an effect on wind. So too the density of air. (Ever hit a ball in Colorado Springs?)
Could you have a Barometer on your trolley and not part of your DMD. what about a wind sock if its a separate item would it be illegal.==== I know it seems silly but is it possible if so why ban it from DMDs.

I think you are missing the point of the rule. DMDs, barometers and wind socks are prohibited artificial devices, whether they are on your cart, in your pocket or in your phone. The DMD (and only the dmd) can be allowed by local rule. If it cannot be separated from another device, it cannot be used even with the local rule.

 

[Foxholer]

Would knowing the slope up or down really help the average golfer...

Yes! At least from the confidence pov. Ability wise, they still have to be ab;e to hit the appropriate club the adjusted distance!

 

[chrisd]

Whereas, in past I would say to someone using their phone that it was almost certainly against the rules and I would suggest they don't use it, I would probably now totally ignore the use and not get into a row. Surely the powers that be could sort this out in a better way to ensure everyone knows where they stand! I am very much in the camp of, if the phone said to the player " all things considered I'd take a 7 iron" I personally don't think it'd make a scrap of difference to amateur play.

 

[Foxholer]

Whereas, in past I would say to someone using their phone that it was almost certainly against the rules and I would suggest they don't use it, I would probably now totally ignore the use and not get into a row. Surely the powers that be could sort this out in a better way to ensure everyone knows where they stand! I am very much in the camp of, if the phone said to the player " all things considered I'd take a 7 iron" I personally don't think it'd make a scrap of difference to amateur play.

I'd be against opening it up completely - which is what i think is what you are saying. Allowing a caddy is not unreasonable, because there's only so much that he/she is capable of/allowed to do. But with technology, it's a case of 'where do you set the boundary'. I think it's about right now and consistent with the 'no advice' approach. Of course, it's the boundary cases that cause the most ruckus and if barometer or hygrometer are treated same as thermometer and anemometer, it wouldn't surprise me.

However, anemometer apart (and then only maybe), I really don't see how any of those sensors really helps a golfer play his shot any better that he wasn't able to work out before the round - even if the actual value returned changes markedly through the round. Anemometer may be useful in theory but, in practice, I doubt that too as it - like the other sensors really - only measures at the particular spot and not throughout the ball's journey!

I'd draw the line slightly free-er, allowing those sensors, (including temperature), but not allowing any conversion of those numbers into yardage or yardage/club adjustment - or recommendation in the first place.

Btw. In Pro Yardage books, which I have a couple of and have seen others, there are adjustment values for elevation/drop/slope at certain points, so even that 'banned' feature is sort of available. Pros Notes, a feature of many traditional books often contain statements that would be considered advice if given by another player!

One thing fundamental though is the application of Rules over all levels of play - no bifurcation. I believe that's at least (a large) part of the reason that allowing DMDs was brought in as an exception to a rule, so while valid to say 'no difference for Amateurs', that's not the way the Rule makers would, or should, think.

 

[palindromicbob]

It has taken a while but finally got a reply from the R&A that clarifies the status of a mobile phone with a barometer.

The news isn't good for those with one. The list has now been updated and all pending are now NO.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wZJ6s0M3258t_wPF_eJJ56RKalPNHcc70trChwduoe4/pub

On 13 Jun 2014 16:45, "Claire Hargan" <ClaireHargan@randa.org> wrote:
Dear Mr Hussey,

Thank you for your e-mail below.

If a barometer on a multifunctional device is capable of measuring air pressure at a specific location, rather than just being an estimate of pressure based on a forecast then you are correct, that would deem a multifunctional device non-compliant as a DMD.

I trust this is of some assistance.

Kind Regards
CLAIRE HARGAN
Manager - Rules
The R&A, St Andrews, Fife, Scotland, KY16 9JD
Tel: +44 (0) 1334 460000
Fax: ++44 (0) 1334 460003

Click here if you are interested in learning more about the Rules of Golf via the Rules Academy.

 

[DCB]

Current version of the R&A flowchart on this is

here

 

[chrisd]

So, in tomorrow's match I see our opponents using a phone what do I do?

 

[rosecott]

So, in tomorrow's match I see our opponents using a phone what do I do?

Ask him if he can tell you the barometric pressure.

 

[mchacker]

How many phones actually have a barometer fitted as a piece of hardware? The answer is near as makes no difference none. Smartphones can read out information gathered by an external source and relayed via the internet, and as per the flowchart above that is not against the rules. The key word in your email is "MEASURING" phones rarely measure something for themselves, slope excluded. Wind, temperature, precipitation, pressure, humidity are all second hand information.

 

[palindromicbob]

How many phones actually have a barometer fitted as a piece of hardware? The answer is near as makes no difference none. Smartphones can read out information gathered by an external source and relayed via the internet, and as per the flowchart above that is not against the rules. The key word in your email is "MEASURING" phones rarely measure something for themselves, slope excluded. Wind, temperature, precipitation, pressure, humidity are all second hand information.

Quite a few have barometeres actually 10 out of 46 listed (50 if you count each iphone) so around 20% of popular models. In fact nearly every flagship Samsung which is a damn big chunk of the market. They are very capable of measuring air pressure by themselves without referencing to the internet. The other keyword in the mail is "CAPABLE". The S4 and S5 also have thermometers. The note in the flowchart is also very important to consider.

"NOTE: Even if the additional information is not used or is disabled / switched off."

The list I have provided a link to is a list to help people decide if they are going to be in breech or not. It's not about pulling up other people it's about trying to ensure that you can't be pulled up.

Edit: just realised though that the model column of my spreadsheet has gone . Must get that corrected.

 

[Jack_bfc]

Golfshot on an iPhone 4s is fine!!!!

 

[palindromicbob]

Golfshot on an iPhone 4s is fine!!!!

Yup should be fine.

 

[palindromicbob]

Anyhoo. Now the barometer thing is clarified if anyone wants a model added let me know on here and I'll check the specs and add it.

 

[duncan mackie]

It has taken a while but finally got a reply from the R&A that clarifies the status of a mobile phone with a barometer.

The news isn't good for those with one. The list has now been updated and all pending are now NO.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wZJ6s0M3258t_wPF_eJJ56RKalPNHcc70trChwduoe4/pub

PHEW...... I felt I would be blindfolded and shot at by more than a few here if they hadn't said this, having dug my heels on this for so long!

you are doing a good job Bob :thup:

 

[palindromicbob]

PHEW...... I felt I would be blindfolded and shot at by more than a few here if they hadn't said this, having dug my heels on this for so long!

you are doing a good job Bob :thup:

Same here Duncan. The last response I got got was saying basically the same thing but didn't clarify the status of barometers, this response is as I was expecting in line with the rules as they stand now.