Middle class and drugs.

[rudebhoy]

11.58 update https://news.sky.com/story/live-knife-crime-crisis-the-battle-to-end-surge-in-violence-11656432 Police demanding more powers to stop people without reasonable grounds. Not so sure on that. Isn't that just the old SUSS laws and what led to race issues, bad apples in the police taking liberties and harassment cases? Think the police will need a strict set of guidelines and for it to be properly managed. Not sure that will happen and not sure this is a forward move

I thought you must have misquoted them, but that is actually what it says! Absolutely ridiculous - if they have reasonable grounds to suspect someone is carrying a weapon, then I'm fine with them stopping them and searching them, but not just because they don't like the look of someone or the colour of their skin.

 

[rudebhoy]

Spice isn't cannabis, it's a completely different man made drug. It's use combined with cannabis is unpleasant, but they are not the same thing and legalising cannabis wouldn't lead to legalised spice.

People can already buy cannabinoid products legally which are derived from cannabis. I use them sometimes myself. I'd much prefer cannabis was legalised as current drug policy is a mess, somewhat based on outdated and misinformed opinion instead of science. So I think a change is long overdue.

Cannabis is nothing compared to the drug that does most harm in our society - alcohol.

That is a very good point, easily overlooked in all the current hysteria.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Who wouldn't at this point? Has a ton of medicinal benefits, far safer and better for you than smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol. It should be regulated by the government, taxed and run like it is in a number of US states.

Safer isn’t a word I would use for cannabis and at the end of the day it’s a drug that can easily cause serious harm both directly and indirectly -

If it’s that good “medically” then maybe it’s used as a very controlled prescription drug for certain cases but then I suspect there are a lot of drugs that people can say can be used medically.

I certainly wouldn’t want to see it legalised - know a few who got hooked on it and ruined their life because of it.

 

[Dan2501]

Safer isn’t a word I would use for cannabis and at the end of the day it’s a drug that can easily cause serious harm both directly and indirectly -

If it’s that good “medically” then maybe it’s used as a very controlled prescription drug for certain cases but then I suspect there are a lot of drugs that people can say can be used medically.

I certainly wouldn’t want to see it legalised - know a few who got hooked on it and ruined their life because of it.

It is safer - certainly than tobacco anyway which is terrible for you with very few upsides and is chemically addictive, the fact cigarettes can be sold openly but marijuana can't absolutely baffles me. It's not chemically addictive like drugs like heroin where your body becomes dependent on the chemicals created by it, no-one has ever fatally overdosed on it, and it has a number of fantastic medicinal benefits. The low-THC containing CBD oils are already being used by families to treat a number of chronic diseases such epilepsy in children, it has fantastic anti-inflammatory properties that provides the anti-inflammatory benefit of something like ibuprofen without all the negative effects on the liver, it can be used as an effective treatment of mental health issues such as PTSD and Bipolar. The benefits to its use are massive, with so few downsides.

Our legal systems' out-dated views on drugs are in gross need of updating, as in their current state all they're doing is making it difficult for people to get access to drugs that have huge potential to help people, and that extends beyond just cannabis. Drugs like LSD and Ibogaine are fantastic for treating PTSD and there a huge number of people who would benefit from these drugs being made available in specialist clinics. I personally wouldn't be against going to a system like Portugal's where they decriminalized all drugs and have seen a wide range of benefits such as reduction in cases of HIV, overdose and drug-related crime.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It is safer - certainly than tobacco anyway which is terrible for you with very few upsides and is chemically addictive, the fact cigarettes can be sold openly but marijuana can't absolutely baffles me. It's not chemically addictive like drugs like heroin where your body becomes dependent on the chemicals created by it, no-one has ever fatally overdosed on it, and it has a number of fantastic medicinal benefits. The low-THC containing CBD oils are already being used by families to treat a number of chronic diseases such epilepsy in children, it has fantastic anti-inflammatory properties that provides the anti-inflammatory benefit of something like ibuprofen without all the negative effects on the liver, it can be used as an effective treatment of mental health issues such as PTSD and Bipolar. The benefits to its use are massive, with so few downsides.

Our legal systems' out-dated views on drugs are in gross need of updating, as in their current state all they're doing is making it difficult for people to get access to drugs that have huge potential to help people, and that extends beyond just cannabis. Drugs like LSD and Ibogaine are fantastic for treating PTSD and there a huge number of people who would benefit from these drugs being made available in specialist clinics. I personally wouldn't be against going to a system like Portugal's where they decriminalized all drugs and have seen a wide range of benefits such as reduction in cases of HIV, overdose and drug-related crime.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/cannabis-the-facts/

I have no doubt it will be dismissed but you only have to read at some of the side effects people can and do get to realise there is no way it imo should ever be legalised beyond any controlled medical purposes.

You get a false high from it - straight away that can cause harm for the user and also anyone else who is directly affected by the user.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Not got any particularly strong views on cannabis as I've not touched drugs (alcohol excepted) and it's not something I'd be interested in. I do understand the medical benefits of it and could see a case for legalising via prescription but couldn't see a case for legalising this and don't think anyone politically would be brave enough to push the legislation through. I think the medical uses need far closer scrutiny and research where necessary so a compelling case for the prescription use can be presented and would hope on that basis someone would have the gumption to press for its use. Again though, like stop and search, it needs vigilant scrutiny

 

[Dan2501]

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/cannabis-the-facts/

I have no doubt it will be dismissed but you only have to read at some of the side effects people can and do get to realise there is no way it imo should ever be legalised beyond any controlled medical purposes.

You get a false high from it - straight away that can cause harm for the user and also anyone else who is directly affected by the user.

Read up on the negative side effects of Tobacco and Alcohol - should they not be sold either? Both addictive, both can cause harm for the user and indirect harm to others. Both are legal and sold openly. Why's cannabis any different?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Read up on the negative side effects of Tobacco and Alcohol - should they not be sold either? Both addictive, both can cause harm for the user and indirect harm to others. Both are legal and sold openly. Why's cannabis any different?

I know the negatives of both but we are talking about cannabis not alcohol and tobacco

So because something that is potentially harmful is sold that a good enough reason to ignore all the negatives and potential damaging effects and just make something else legal ?

Alcohol and Tobacco have been historically legal and suspect it’s near on impossible to make it illegal

If something is that damaging for people then it’s madness to make it legal for one and all.

 

[Tashyboy]

Not got any particularly strong views on cannabis as I've not touched drugs (alcohol excepted) and it's not something I'd be interested in. I do understand the medical benefits of it and could see a case for legalising via prescription but couldn't see a case for legalising this and don't think anyone politically would be brave enough to push the legislation through. I think the medical uses need far closer scrutiny and research where necessary so a compelling case for the prescription use can be presented and would hope on that basis someone would have the gumption to press for its use. Again though, like stop and search, it needs vigilant scrutiny

Homer dont get me wrong. The police using the confines of law are battling against knife crime and drugs being used by people that have no confines and certainly do not respect life or law
Stop and search should be done. But it should be used on a basis if everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Ie something is found. People being searched should be searched with respect and a reason. Inly then if something is found should they be given a pasting.
Just driped daughter and a pal/ colleague off in Sheffield for a booze fueled bonding sessioni asked him the same question re drugs and crime. He said “ in 17 years i can count on one hand the amount of burglaries, shop theft etc ( he had attended) that have been done that are NOT linked to buying drugs”.

 

[Dan2501]

I'd rather look at the benefits and whether they outweigh the potential negatives, and for me marijuana has FAR more benefits than it does potential downsides. Drugs can be mis-used and that goes for all drugs, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be able to access them, especially if they have as many potential benefits as cannabis does.

 

[patricks148]

i worked in the city for 15 years starting in 1990 and cocaine was rife from top to bottom, in fact it was fairly common even during working hours and most social gatherings.
in fact there were a few things it was made clear unless you had some, don't bother coming attitude. I don't think its like that any longer, happy to be away from it TBH...

as for drugs in general, i'm in favour of legalising everything, with the criminal element removed from the sale of drugs, i suspect you would see a drop in knife crime. the current thinking isn't working as far as drugs are concerned and Alcohol causes as many problems as drugs, but legal. you only have to walk down a street now to see and smell cannabis, may as well get tax for it IMO

 

[Marshy77]

Lower, middle or higher - it's rife in all works of life.
Been clubbing since early 90's and djing out and about for years and seen it all - the good and bad. I find nowadays that it's much more open and common I'd say. The amount of the younger generation on something - other than alcohol is pretty alarming. Coke's cheaper than ever before and is very common among all ages ranges I've found and notice that kids are drinking less and doing more of other things. Gone are the days of keeping more of the drugs in clubs for clubbers and now it seems like any place will be riddled with them, like Tash says even more openly so at football and with all ages too.

 

[Marshy77]

i worked in the city for 15 years starting in 1990 and cocaine was rife from top to bottom, in fact it was fairly common even during working hours and most social gatherings.
in fact there were a few things it was made clear unless you had some, don't bother coming attitude. I don't think its like that any longer, happy to be away from it TBH...

as for drugs in general, i'm in favour of legalising everything, with the criminal element removed from the sale of drugs, i suspect you would see a drop in knife crime. the current thinking isn't working as far as drugs are concerned and Alcohol causes as many problems as drugs, but legal. you only have to walk down a street now to see and smell cannabis, may as well get tax for it IMO

It would go underground and knife crime would stay the same. It's not just subjective to drugs is knife crime there's so many more elements to it than that. And like has been proved this weekend it's not just a gang crime problem, it's far bigger than that.

 

[patricks148]

It would go underground and knife crime would stay the same. It's not just subjective to drugs is knife crime there's so many more elements to it than that. And like has been proved this weekend it's not just a gang crime problem, it's far bigger than that.

why would it go underground if you could go and buy quality controlled, taxed and probably cheaper drugs from say your local Chemist ??

admittedly the last two don't appear to be drugs related, but who knows, the culprits and motive have not been established yet, but many of the other cases esp in London do appear to be.

our attitude to alcohol is very different to drugs and its just as damaging if not more so IMO.

i really think we have to do something different, drugs are rife in all walks of life including prisons the one environment you should be able to control.

 

[Marshy77]

why would it go underground if you could go and buy quality controlled, taxed and probably cheaper drugs from say your local Chemist ??

admittedly the last two don't appear to be drugs related, but who knows, the culprits and motive have not been established yet, but many of the other cases esp in London do appear to be.

our attitude to alcohol is very different to drugs and its just as damaging if not more so IMO.

i really think we have to do something different, drugs are rife in all walks of life including prisons the one environment you should be able to control.

because synthetic drugs like spice would never be legalised and other drugs would become available. IMO its a vicious circle where illegal acts would continue in other ways, other drugs and other ways to make money.

I do agree with having to do something different. The problem with prison is that you have users inside with dealers, dealers still want to get paid even inside. I haven't a clue how you change it but something desperately needs to be done.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Son was even approached at an exclusive golf club to see if he wanted some. You cant get away from it.

Its available everywhere, just look and you can see, whether in public spaces or other places, quite often see it being used and I don't go out much.

Never tried it and never will, just seems to dangerous to even bother, bit like smoking, costs to much and far to addictive, results are not good when I have come across it.

 

[Hacker Khan]

why would it go underground if you could go and buy quality controlled, taxed and probably cheaper drugs from say your local Chemist ??

admittedly the last two don't appear to be drugs related, but who knows, the culprits and motive have not been established yet, but many of the other cases esp in London do appear to be.

our attitude to alcohol is very different to drugs and its just as damaging if not more so IMO.

i really think we have to do something different, drugs are rife in all walks of life including prisons the one environment you should be able to control.

Same with gambling as most of sport seems to be hell bent on getting people hooked on gambling.

 

[jim8flog]

Out of interest - who would legalise cannabis ?

This is something I am on the fence about.

Certainly when I was young cannabis was the starting point for many to get in to stronger drugs.
I am in favour for those capable of controlling their usage but sadly , like alcohol, there are far too many that would not be.

As already pointed out it is something that can remain in the system for a very long time and just think of all the drugged drivers that would be out there particularly in the morning.

 

[Jimaroid]

As already pointed out it is something that can remain in the system for a very long time and just think of all the drugged drivers that would be out there particularly in the morning.

How is it that any different to alcohol or many over-counter, off-shelf and prescription drugs that are already legal. And how many people ignore the words "Do not drive or operate machinery"?

If I was given the choice of sharing roads with alcoholics or stoners, I'd choose the stoners every time, they're much safer drivers. And irrespective of that, if it was purely a concern about reducing danger on roads, I'd make mobile phones illegal before worrying about the morning-after drugs issue.

All drugs have side effects. The issue society continually fails to deal with (and is shown in this very thread) is that drug policy is inconsistent and not based on modern evidence, but I'm just repeating myself now.

 

[Tashyboy]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&s...aw0EWovUoS0xxDM9163uUoWV&ust=1551971443502611
Am sure this aint gonna help.