LIV Golf

[Ethan]

Click here - a well known Golf magazine reporting LIV players may be kicked out of all 4 majors next year. Interesting.

Providing they are offered a window to recant and come back in time, I support this step.

I think LIV now needs to assume that the main players are all pretty well aligned and are taking a hard line (at least to begin with), and they should not expect co-operation on OWGR either.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Click here - a well known Golf magazine reporting LIV players may be kicked out of all 4 majors next year. Interesting.

Providing they are offered a window to recant and come back in time, I support this step.

I think LIV now needs to assume that the main players are all pretty well aligned and are taking a hard line (at least to begin with), and they should not expect co-operation on OWGR either.

Not sure I do. If the 4 majors are run as separate entities from the tours and those that have joined the LIV Tour still meet the qualification criteria then that smacks of a bit of tit-for-tat rather than directly protecting the other tours' interests.

But please do not construe that as being supportive of the LIV Tour.

 

[Ethan]

Not sure I do. If the 4 majors are run as separate entities from the tours and those that have joined the LIV Tour still meet the qualification criteria then that smacks of a bit of tit-for-tat rather than directly protecting the other tours' interests.

But please do not construe that as being supportive of the LIV Tour.

This is not surprising after Martin Slumbers' comments the other day, though.

The other Tours and majors that form the OWGR have basically two choices, the hard line screw them approach or the let's work together approach. Seems like Greg hasn't quite got past his initial triumphalism stage yet, so the second option is probably premature, at the least.

If the other Tours take a hard line, then I think they should offer an amnesty for LIV players.

 

[Blue in Munich]

This is not surprising after Martin Slumbers' comments the other day, though.

The other Tours and majors that form the OWGR have basically two choices, the hard line screw them approach or the let's work together approach. Seems like Greg hasn't quite got past his initial triumphalism stage yet, so the second option is probably premature, at the least.

If the other Tours take a hard line, then I think they should offer an amnesty for LIV players.

No, not surprising, but not a direct threat to the other tours either for me; I would see allowing them to compete in the Majors as the most amount of compromise the other Tours should offer LIV.

I'd agree that if they do look to ban them all then there should be some sort of route back.

 

[Ethan]

No, not surprising, but not a direct threat to the other tours either for me; I would see allowing them to compete in the Majors as the most amount of compromise the other Tours should offer LIV.

I'd agree that if they do look to ban them all then there seems to be some sort of route back.

But it is not really in the gift of the Tours to let them back, it is Augusta National, R&A etc. The LIV guys would settle for OWGR points for their events (feudal strength might be an issue, though), the majors and a very limited number of invites to top events, e.g. Scottish week before Open, Players etc. They don't give a toss about the John Deere Classic or the Dutch Open.

 

[Blue in Munich]

But it is not really in the gift of the Tours to let them back, it is Augusta National, R&A etc. The LIV guys would settle for OWGR points for their events (feudal strength might be an issue, though), the majors and a very limited number of invites to top events, e.g. Scottish week before Open, Players etc. They don't give a toss about the John Deere Classic or the Dutch Open.

Well it is within their gift if they don't introduce a rule change that bans them.

"It is now understood that an avenue being explored is to exclude anyone who is suspended from one of golf's traditional tours from featuring in future editions of the game's oldest championship."

 

[BrianM]

Surely the Majors would be de-valued then?
We need the best players playing regardless of the tour they play on?

 

[Ethan]

Surely the Majors would be de-valued then?
We need the best players playing regardless of the tour they play on?

Once the plummet down the OWGR, they won't be the best players, though.

Well it is within their gift if they don't introduce a rule change that bans them.

"It is now understood that an avenue being explored is to exclude anyone who is suspended from one of golf's traditional tours from featuring in future editions of the game's oldest championship."

That is an indication that the majors and Tours are solid, then. Maybe it is just easier if binary.

One other aspect is that whilst the LIV players could win an anti-trust lawsuit against the PGA Tour if they choose a nice Trump-appointed judge, they won't win one against the major organisers who have a lot more autonomy.

 

[Swango1980]

The impact of LIV will really be felt down the line, when the top players who joined LIV tumble down the world rankings. The big players still currently fulfil the qualifying criteria, so not feeling the true consequences just yet. When they no longer qualify for Majors or WGCs, then it will be interesting to see the fallout. However, if the top players on the PGA Tour have now settled in to maintaining the support, and LIV have tempted just about as many as the big players they can, then it could be that fans will just happily forget about the likes of Bryson and Brooks as serious golfers, treat them a little more like exhibition celebrity golfers. Maybe every now and then, LIV will attract new players who are basically pre Seniors Tour, out of form PGA Tour players who have resigned to not getting their top form back, or young players who want the easy money rather than compete in the Majors against the best.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The impact of LIV will really be felt down the line, when the top players who joined LIV tumble down the world rankings. The big players still currently fulfil the qualifying criteria, so not feeling the true consequences just yet. When they no longer qualify for Majors or WGCs, then it will be interesting to see the fallout. However, if the top players on the PGA Tour have now settled in to maintaining the support, and LIV have tempted just about as many as the big players they can, then it could be that fans will just happily forget about the likes of Bryson and Brooks as serious golfers, treat them a little more like exhibition celebrity golfers. Maybe every now and then, LIV will attract new players who are basically pre Seniors Tour, out of form PGA Tour players who have resigned to not getting their top form back, or young players who want the easy money rather than compete in the Majors against the best.

Some definitely already have.

 

[BrianM]

Once the plummet down the OWGR, they won't be the best players, though.

Just because the golfing gods don't allow them to be included in the world rankings, doesn't mean they aren't some off the best players in the world.
You can't tell me a Major is not de-valued by not including all the best players?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I've clicked the link and watched the video - and Martin Slumbers has said golf particiaption is up because of Covid, and we need to keep those people involved....

That's it!!

As for the Sky Coverage of The Open, there was nothing better than watching it on the beeb, and it should have remained that way. They just took the money - the very same thing that the LIV players are castigated for.

you are joking, aren't you?
Compared with Sky?
I think Sky put more into it, cameras, presenters etc.
Also,
Sky have a dedicated channel. If the event goes on longer than scheduled then Sky stick with it.
BBC would tell you something like .." unfortunately......etc "
And it would be highlights later, or change of channel.
Either way, recording it and you're sunk.

It's still the same with them - witness the last Wimbledon.

 

[BrianM]

Koepka is the best player to par since 2017 at Majors, so he wouldn't be a loss....

 

[Ethan]

Just because the golfing gods don't allow them to be included in the world rankings, doesn't mean they aren't some off the best players in the world.
You can't tell me a Major is not de-valued by not including all the best players?

Well, I was kinda joking, but there is a serious point beneath. The OWGR has been self reinforcing the other way, the best players strengthen fields by entering, therefore get more OWGR points, and consolidate their positions. Most of the top names in LIV (DJ, Koepka, BdC, Phil Mick) have been falling down the OWGR.

The end of 2021 compared to most recent OWGR are:

DJ: 3 to 18
Koepka: 16 to 20
Bryson: 5 to 33
Mickelson: 33 to 92

Only Koepka is maintaining their position.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Koepka is the best player to par since 2017 at Majors, so he wouldn't be a loss....

Depends on which Koepka it is - the one who was dominant for 2 years from 2017-2019 in the Majors or the one who is happy with his lot and just doesn’t really care

 

[Backsticks]

Does anyone know what the teams are for the Open? The individual competition is OK-ish, but its following the teams that really makes golf worth watching.

 

[Ethan]

you are joking, aren't you?
Compared with Sky?
I think Sky put more into it, cameras, presenters etc.
Also,
Sky have a dedicated channel. If the event goes on longer than scheduled then Sky stick with it.
BBC would tell you something like .." unfortunately......etc "
And it would be highlights later, or change of channel.
Either way, recording it and you're sunk.

It's still the same with them - witness the last Wimbledon.

i agree. Sky provides better coverage. The off course stuff, interacting with the gallery and The Open Zone are all pretty good. The on course coverage is pretty good too.

 

[RRidges]

Koepka is the best player to par since 2017 at Majors, so he wouldn't be a loss....

Currently at 77th, tied with John Daly et al and behind 3 amateurs.

 

[Swango1980]

Currently at 77th, tied with John Daly et al and behind 3 amateurs.

Tiger made an interesting point about LIV. If players can just turn up and are guaranteed money, why practice? Or at least, why put as much effort into practice? If these LIV players no longer feel they need to battle it out with the best in the world to maintain there standing keep a strong PGA Tour Card, it could be very easy for them to take their eye off the ball.

Simply put, will LIV make them better golfers, no difference, or worse? For me, my bet is it will, in general, make them worse.

 

[AussieKB]

Does anyone know what the teams are for the Open? The individual competition is OK-ish, but its following the teams that really makes golf worth watching.

Is that like watching the Ryder Cup without some of the best players ?