sunshine
Well-known member
But what you have described above is exactly the same as any European tour event in the UK. 54 holes v 72 holes, it’s virtually the same product.
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
But what you have described above is exactly the same as any European tour event in the UK. 54 holes v 72 holes, it’s virtually the same product.
Did Tiger not practice when he was getting appearance money at tournaments? Did he not practice after signing his Nike contracts? What about when he reached his first $100m, second $100m, $500m?
We also keep being told, prior to LIV, that money is irrelevant to these guys, it's all about winning. Why does this stop for LIV players? Do PGA players want to win more than LIV players or actually are they just the same?
Swango1980
Well-known member
Of course he did, because his bread and butter was still the PGA Tour. That was what was giving him the fame, winning majors and being world number 1. If he just eased off on practicing as soon as he was offered any appearance money (which was a shadow of the LIV guys btw), then he'd struggle to sustain that legendary status when he was in his prime.
The LIV appear that they won't be fighting to become world number 1, given they get no ranking points. They won't be fighting to make cuts and and keep their place on LIV. Not the best players like Bryson or Brooks anyway, their game has pretty much solidified their positions on LIV for many years to come, if it goes on that long. And all the money that comes with it.
AussieKB
Well-known member
If it's not about money why did the R&A increase this year by 22% and the winner get an extra 300 thousand pound ? also the PGA are increasing the prize money ?
I agree, they want the trophy but don't try and tell me money does not play a part.
I agree, they want the trophy but don't try and tell me money does not play a part.
Golfnut1957
Newbie
Oh the hypocrisy! Joe Biden is off to see the Saudi Crown Prince today, begging bowl in hand. I wonder if the PGA Tour will ban him and the majors bar him?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I don’t think anyone has said money is “irrelevant”
Surely you can see the difference between someone “earning” on the golf course and having to practise constantly to ensure they earned the money
To people just being given the money for being there
If Woods etc didn’t perform on the tour they wouldn’t earn millions
Mickleson and Co can just turn up and be given £100s of millions regardless of how they perform - on top of their endorsements they used to get
If it doesn’t matter how a player performs then why would they bother to focus on winning ?
- just look at the way Perez celebrated getting a couple of million even playing horrific How is that relevant ?
I’m not aware that the us government sponsers the PGA Tourevemccc
Well-known member
I don’t think anyone has said money is “irrelevant”
Surely you can see the difference between someone “earning” on the golf course and having to practise constantly to ensure they earned the money
To people just being given the money for being there
If Woods etc didn’t perform on the tour they wouldn’t earn millions
Mickleson and Co can just turn up and be given £100s of millions regardless of how they perform - on top of their endorsements they used to get
If it doesn’t matter how a player performs then why would they bother to focus on winning ?
How is that relevant ?
Pretty sure that’s exactly what the PGA Tour instigated with the PIP..
That’s what the golf media establishment and quasi-establishment NLU gushed over - “the top players are underpaid…isn’t it funny that Tiger ‘won’ the PIP despite not even playing ANY pro-golf”
etc. etc. etc.
What’s your point, that’s like me saying everyone ahead of tiger right now is better than him, start thinking about what your saying before giving a 20 second answer that means nothing, I gave you a factual statistic on Brooks, nothing else.
My opinion won’t change that the Majors will be devalued if all the best players aren’t playing.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
What am I missing here?
If the argument is the players are obsessed with money - last place $120,000 , first place $4,000,000 (Portland)
Are people suggesting professional players won't try to play well?
Does this apply to other sports also?
#confused
If the argument is the players are obsessed with money - last place $120,000 , first place $4,000,000 (Portland)
Are people suggesting professional players won't try to play well?
Does this apply to other sports also?
#confused
Tiger was earning way more in sponsorship than on the PGA but he didn't ease up. His drive to win took over. If that exists for him why assume it doesn't for others? Do they not have professional pride as well?
That LIV players may not get ranking points in down to the governing body, not the players. I suspect the players expected ranking points to come, that would then qualify them for the majors, apart from the PGA presumably.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
The same PIP that’s been heavily criticised across the world of golf , the same PIP that Mickleson was one of the instigators to get more money in his pocket , the same PIP money that generated by the Tour
so whilst it’s not great is it the same as someone being given £200mil to just turn up which was the initial point in regards players not bothering to test themselves when they are being given huge sums of money
It’s always hard to try and compare with other sports - many other sports the players etc are employed by team etc to provide a service
And in regards the money for places - I think more to do with the fact some are getting more than just the prize money , the likes of BDC , DJ getting over £100mil for just being there - as opposed to get £100mil for winning
And of course there is the issue of where that money is coming from
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It's equivalent to saying that Messi coasted after signing each contract. Did you see Messi's deal at Barcelona? Why work hard when you are guaranteed that much money for 4-5 years at a time. The argument is nonsense and so narrow focused. It's classic LIV = bad. Some parts are poor, but not all.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Firstly, I didn't say every single player on LIV would lose 100% of their drive to practice. It was a general statement. Tiger Woods is one of the most golf obsessed, driven people the sport has ever had. So, trying to compare every player to him is a little futile. However, his drive was clearly to do with being the best, being World Number 1, winning Majors and winning the biggest events in golf. And, he achieved this. And, it was because of all this that all that prize money and sponsorship money came his way. He practiced because he had a drive to continue to be the best.
Then I look at the likes of DJ, Brooks and DeChambeau. All fantastic players, and undoubtedly they have practiced hard to become that good since they were kids. Since joining LIV, I'm sure they will not stop practicing completely. And, maybe they'll continue to practice as much as they had. Maybe, but I cannot see them practicing more. What is the NEW motivation to do so? They already have huge amounts of money, and are guaranteed in making very good money over the next number of years. They have no risk of losing their LIV Tour Card. If they don't get world rankings points, they've no motivation to become the World Number 1. If the PGA Tour do not let them on their events, they will soon have no motivation to do well in those events to keep a PGA Tour Card. And, if there comes a point where they fail to qualify for Majors due to no presence in the World Rankings, then that motivation goes.
So, I see plenty of reasons why the motivation to practice hard will decline for the better players on LIV. Not many reasons for it to improve. Given the worst players on LIV are little better than the guy who wins the gross prize in your club monthly medal, even if they are not winning LIV events every week, they will continue to rake in good money. I think DJ has pretty much conceded that he joined LIV as he doesn't want to dedicate as much time to golf as he had been. I can imagine Brooks could be the same, he can barely motivate himself to string a sentence together let alone practice for 8 hours a day.
Not saying these players will decline in ability overnight. Maybe they won't. But my hypothesis is that, over time, these big players on LIV will start to struggle more and more when up against the guys on the PGA Tour. That is, if the ship has steadied itself, and the exodus to LIV does not continue.
I took the comment that way, apologies if my reply seemed otherwise, but I think the point still stands. I quoted Tiger as he was the one who made the comment. It could be applied to any of the top players though. Once you have made it big on the PGA tour, get exemptions, get the big sponsors, you are financially made. Yes the LIV money is clearly big, but so is the money the top guys make already. There is nothing new there. Some may lose motivation but then so will PGA players who have pocketed millions. I don't see the difference.
GB72
Money List Winner
I suppose that you could look at it another way and compare it to the Williams sisters in tennis. They just focused on the Grand Slam events and so only wanted to play enough tennis to ensure that their rankings stayed high enough and they qualified each year. They had no interest in playing in what were probably seen as no name tour events, they had already earned enough as so the Grand Slams were all that they cared about. Perhaps some of the higher ranked golfers (whether selfishly or not in the greater interests of golf and the tour) do not want to be playing the, shall we say, lesser known events or the number of events that they are obligated to. They just want enough events at the right time to peak for the majors. Not at all saying that this is the case but you know me, like to put in a contray point every now and again, and perhaps that is a reason. Same with those of more advancing years, the opportunity to pick and choose how many events you play in a year could be seen as a beneifit.
I am not doubting that money plays a huge part but there could be other reasons (OK if LIV tour members are banned or cannot qualify for majors then that either backfired badly or eradicates my argument) and, perhaps, some of the bigger names feel that they are being used to prop up small or meaningless events as their presence ensures better sponsorship/
Swango1980
Well-known member
No issue with the best players wanting to pick and choose events to play in the most prestigious ones. However, by doing that they better make sure they continue to be much better than their peers, and practice hard. Otherwise, if their performances dipped and they were just playing a reduced schedule, they will start to struggle to qualify for the big ones.
That is the thing with LIV. If they are not getting world ranking points, then they are going to start to struggle to qualify for those big events in the coming years. They do not appear to be allowed on the PGA Tour. So, they are essentially playing on a tour that has zero qualification criteria, compared to playing on a tour that required players to fulfil certain criteria to keep their card. The best players may well have made a fortune on the PGA Tour, but they knew they had to continue to play to a high standard if they wanted to continue earning that money and get those sponsorship deals. Those basic motivations are less relevant now for players on LIV, where the best players have already been handed over in excess of $100 million, and are guaranteed millions in the coming years. Not saying they'll have zero motivation. Maybe Bryson will be motivated to become the best LIV player, but it all just feels a bit worthless at the moment. They are just random events with a random bunch of players earning big money.
I've never had an issue with players taking the money, that is their decision. And, no issue with them trying to see the positive side of it, there will be some from their point of view (outside the money). But, it just seems LIV players will have less reasons to put in the intense practice that another player does, a player that is trying to become the worlds best and win Majors (or even just put in that practice to get a chance to play in each Major, for those up and coming players, or older players who still want to get into the Majors)
sunshine
Well-known member
Sorry but that’s just inaccurate as usual. The bbc has no interest in golf, it’s a shame but it doesn’t fit their agenda, and the coverage was slipping way behind other tournaments.
The R&A only had one credible provider ready to step in and deliver the world class coverage that a premier event like the Open merits. You can’t blame the R&A when effectively the bbc pulled out.
IanM
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Bbc coverage of golf was awful at the end. Even Wimbledon this year got silly as the match you were watching hopped between bbc1 and 2 and iPlayer
sunshine
Well-known member
This is up there as contender for dumbest post of the year ?
Has anyone ever bought something because of advertising? ?
sunshine
Well-known member
This post sums up the thread.
Deflect, deflect, deflect. Ask the question about the PGA or R&A or anyone else. Then Phil (and others) rise to the question. Until the next issue with Liv and we get a new round of deflection
