LIV Golf

[Ethan]

Further updates on the “Promotion Tournament”

I’m sure someone can explain it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551650275039105028

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551651333861687298

seems like they will be offering or allowing all those exempt ( majors winners , players in world rankings etc ). - the chance to play to try and qualify for 3 spots as 4 are relegated unless there are some players that a team owner or captain doesn’t want then they need to try and qualify again plus the 4 relegated- unless of course a player kicked out of the team has a contract that means he has to stay ?!

All seems pretty clear ?‍

The system is simple enough. LIV will keep all the marquee names and high ranking players and kick out/promote some lesser names now and again to make it look like a dynamic system.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This for me is the most important question, but it is also one with pros and cons which need to be weighed up.

An old childhood friend got to +4/5 and was on one of the euro tours (I can’t recall which exactly) he did this for few years with family support but will openly admit the pressure on Fridays made him hate the game. If he missed the cut he would have to go back to the family for travel fees, entry fees etc for the next event and he hated it. In his final year he come home from his final comp, weighed up how much he had earned over a period and how much the family had invested and it was a clear cut choice to quit there and then.

He went back into the family business, started a family and has now taken over as a joint owner of a very successful business. The only golf he plays is Sunday morning with his dad which he loves.

Using the above example someone finishing in the 40-48 in the first event would have made more than my pal did in 3/4 years just from the events he qualified for (not deducting the expenses for the events he didn’t) so you can 100% understand why up and comers have signed for LIV. It’s then down to them to decide to they make as much as they can in the year that they are attracting big names, cash in and if the tours don’t welcome them back go down another route such as a teaching pro with the exception of being mortgage free etc etc etc.

I don’t believe there is a right answer, only the individual can decide that. But having seen someone invest from their early teens through to their early 30’s only to still have not received much financial stability I can definitely appreciate the reasoning why.

I’m guessing it’s a similar story across a lot of professional sports where people are fighting hard to make it beyond the feeder level into the main level of competition- I think it’s not much different with tennis according to a mate whose daughter is trying for it right now - lots of hard work at low tours.

You can see many young up and coming pros on the likes of the EuroPro battling away to get on the Challenge Tour - there is always such a small level that go though to the next level and then the next level up , they are all talented golfers but it seems they really do need that something special to make it or just a touch of good timing.

You can’t blame anyone at that level jumping at the chance to go to a tour that will guarantee them more money than most win on tour

 

[Deleted member 21445]

This must be very worrying for the PGA Tour. This is not hearsay he is an agent for PGA Tour players and obviously talks to other agents as well as having other inside knowledge.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551844814005608449

 

[Oddsocks]

You can’t blame anyone at that level jumping at the chance to go to a tour that will guarantee them more money than most win on tour

My thoughts exactly. I think (no doubt wrong) that the last place lad player at centurion got around 120~150k plus what ever his sign up money was.

Depending on where he lives 3 rounds of live would potentially see him mortgage free or a low mortgage with enough in the bank to grind out a couple of years on a feeder tour without the fear of expenses crippling him.

In an ideal world and with a bit of irony, the LIV may have been better received as another feeder tour offering sensible purses to feed new talent.

For example £75k signing on bonus(nett after to tax to approx £40k salary) for the player £35k for the caddy(nett 25k salary) An assured 3 round showing were 48th place received 10-25k working it’s way up. Work on the same relegation based system, 4 in 4 out. Even keep 4 spare as a promoters choice for local prospects.

If you had the opportunity and sucked at all 3 rounds, you would still earn approx £150k gross in 3 rounds, caddy maybe £75k gross

From the industry it would have “ grown the game of golf “, it would just have had no following as it didn’t have the big names.

 

[Ethan]

This for me is the most important question, but it is also one with pros and cons which need to be weighed up.

An old childhood friend got to +4/5 and was on one of the euro tours (I can’t recall which exactly) he did this for few years with family support but will openly admit the pressure on Fridays made him hate the game. If he missed the cut he would have to go back to the family for travel fees, entry fees etc for the next event and he hated it. In his final year he come home from his final comp, weighed up how much he had earned over a period and how much the family had invested and it was a clear cut choice to quit there and then.

He went back into the family business, started a family and has now taken over as a joint owner of a very successful business. The only golf he plays is Sunday morning with his dad which he loves.

Using the above example someone finishing in the 40-48 in the first event would have made more than my pal did in 3/4 years just from the events he qualified for (not deducting the expenses for the events he didn’t) so you can 100% understand why up and comers have signed for LIV. It’s then down to them to decide to they make as much as they can in the year that they are attracting big names, cash in and if the tours don’t welcome them back go down another route such as a teaching pro with the exception of being mortgage free etc etc etc.

I don’t believe there is a right answer, only the individual can decide that. But having seen someone invest from their early teens through to their early 30’s only to still have not received much financial stability I can definitely appreciate the reasoning why.

That is professional sport. May try, few succeed. There are tons of young players kicked out of football academy teams, athletes who never make it, golfers are no different. The LIV Tour offers no answers for that, paying a tiny number of younger players doesn't help the vast majority, and LIV will soon kick the failures to the kerb anyway. LIV may be making it worse by offering false hope that they have no real intent on following though on.

 

[Ethan]

This must be very worrying for the PGA Tour. This is not hearsay he is an agent for PGA Tour players and obviously talks to other agents as well as having other inside knowledge.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551844814005608449

It may not be hearsay, but it still might be a bunch of Pro V1s. As an agent, Elkington (who is a friend of Greg Norman), may be talking up the LIV Tour for his own business reasons, so you have to take what he says with a large carton of salt.

 

[Imurg]

This must be very worrying for the PGA Tour. This is not hearsay he is an agent for PGA Tour players and obviously talks to other agents as well as having other inside knowledge.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551844814005608449

They're not all going to get one because they can't all play at the same time.....unless they're going to have 3 or 4 events running at the same time..

 

[Deleted member 15344]

This must be very worrying for the PGA Tour. This is not hearsay he is an agent for PGA Tour players and obviously talks to other agents as well as having other inside knowledge.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551844814005608449

Do we know who Elkington looks after ?

And also he is best buds with Norman isn’t he ?

85% does seem to be a bit too high but it could be pros gossiping - the same pros that currently earn a lot of money each year

As for the sponsors - haven’t a number of them actually removed the sponsorship from the players ?

and is it 30 players ? Didn’t realise it was that many from the PGA Tour - but it is good that most of them are replaceable expect the likes of DJ , BDC and Koepka

You would hope that the PGA tour is certainly bigger than a handful of players at the end of the day

But I still think the key is going to be the ranking points - many of those players who have left will miss out on majors - WGC’s , Ryder Cups etc - if the players aren’t worried about those then they will go to LIV

But as we have seen they are sticking with that 48 player limit so how many more will they ask ?

 

[Ethan]

Do we know who Elkington looks after ?

And also he is best buds with Norman isn’t he ?

85% does seem to be a bit too high but it could be pros gossiping - the same pros that currently earn a lot of money each year

As for the sponsors - haven’t a number of them actually removed the sponsorship from the players ?

and is it 30 players ? Didn’t realise it was that many from the PGA Tour - but it is good that most of them are replaceable expect the likes of DJ , BDC and Koepka

You would hope that the PGA tour is certainly bigger than a handful of players at the end of the day

But I still think the key is going to be the ranking points - many of those players who have left will miss out on majors - WGC’s , Ryder Cups etc - if the players aren’t worried about those then they will go to LIV

But as we have seen they are sticking with that 48 player limit so how many more will they ask ?

The LIV Tour is not interested in setting up a whole golf ecosystem. They basically want one headline set of events, perhaps one each for men and women, with some end of season play-offs for the lesser lights to fight it out. They won't be setting up structures of Tours like Korn Ferry or Challenge, and won't be doing grass-roots stuff except as disguised advertising or for some tax breaks.

 

[Orikoru]

They're not all going to get one because they can't all play at the same time.....unless they're going to have 3 or 4 events running at the same time..

With all this talk of promotion and relegation, maybe they'll have a LIV Premier League and a LIV Championship.

 

[Ethan]

With all this talk of promotion and relegation, maybe they'll have a LIV Premier League and a LIV Championship.

Since it is Saudi, maybe it will be more like a Hunger Games.

 

[Beezerk]

With all this talk of promotion and relegation, maybe they'll have a LIV Premier League and a LIV Championship.

Sounds daft but who knows, maybe they are going to try and fashion some sort of league system which would be quite interesting imo.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Pretty ruthless that 9 original members have been kicked out of the first 48.
Where do they go now or do they just retire on their new wealth?
Fairly obvious how this is going to work now and I cannot see it failing.
Sad times for golf.

Often wondered if the LIV caddies still get the same percentage of winnings

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sounds daft but who knows, maybe they are going to try and fashion some sort of league system which would be quite interesting imo.

In some ways it’s not a bad idea - other tours have it when players drop to different tours etc

But would need to be all level and true relegation as such based on performance only - people shouldn’t be exempt based on their name

It’s like saying that even if Liverpool/City or United finish in the bottom 3 they still won’t be relegated

 

[Beezerk]

In some ways it’s not a bad idea - other tours have it when players drop to different tours etc

But would need to be all level and true relegation as such based on performance only - people shouldn’t be exempt based on their name

It’s like saying that even if Liverpool/City or United finish in the bottom 3 they still won’t be relegated

100%
Certainly an interesting concept should they try and go down the football league system route but like you say, it really should be a true and fair league with no one exempt from relegation.

 

[Backsticks]

I’

You can’t blame anyone at that level jumping at the chance to go to a tour that will guarantee them more money than most win on tour

Nobody that lowly will get within a mile of the Saudi tour if they have their way. Saudi's goal is the best 48 players in the world. The rest are of no interest to them.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Another thing Elkington said that I thought was very interesting is that Hideki Matsuyama is rumoured to have already signed and he is going to head up an all Japanese Team.
This is so Norman can get a lucrative Japanese TV contract and a huge Japanese sponsor franchise for that team.

That is actually very smart as Hideki is a GOD in Japan.

Elkington did seem to have some very insightful inside knowledge what ever you think his motive might be.

 

[Backsticks]

This must be very worrying for the PGA Tour. This is not hearsay he is an agent for PGA Tour players and obviously talks to other agents as well as having other inside knowledge.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551844814005608449

Saudi only wants the 15 % though. And for the most part, so far, they arent biting.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Saudi only wants the 15 % though. And for the most part, so far, they arent biting.

Yes as Elkington said Cameron Smith and any other big names are not going to bite/move (If they are) till after the big pay day on the PGA Tour that is the Fed Ex Tour Championship.
So we wont really know the full landscape till mid September.

 

[Ethan]

Another thing Elkington said that I thought was very interesting is that Hideki Matsuyama is rumoured to have already signed and he is going to head up an all Japanese Team.
This is so Norman can get a lucrative Japanese TV contract and a huge Japanese sponsor franchise for that team.

That is actually very smart as Hideki is a GOD in Japan.

Elkington did seem to have some very insightful inside knowledge what ever you think his motive might be.

I am sure Elkington does have insight but he also has bills to pay and private jets to refuel, so he is likely to be playing games too.