LIV Golf

[Deleted member 15344]

Which is where I find the hypocrisy a big bug bare for me. They will and do accept Saudi money when it suits, they’d lose a high profile player but still use his support.

And so the circle of debate begins… all over again.

?

Who is the “they”

PIF provided prize money for a golf tournament within the ET - the Saudi International and it came with a lot of criticism and some players didn’t play it.

They also provide money for the LET and imo that was full of hypocrisy because they talked a lot about womens rights etc then took the money - think there was a heated debate on here about it

Yes the origins on the money isn’t great but there will be traces to many “unethical” areas etc

That’s not the issue I have with it

The closed shop, the vast amounts being given to players just to be there - it’s just trying to buy a tour and in Norman’s case harm a tour, a tour which has a pathway for many young golfers

Edited - was supposed to be “they”

 

[Oddsocks]

Who is the “we”

PIF provided prize money for a golf tournament within the ET - the Saudi International and it came with a lot of criticism and some players didn’t play it.

They also provide money for the LET and imo that was full of hypocrisy because they talked a lot about womens rights etc then took the money - think there was a heated debate on here about it

Yes the origins on the money isn’t great but there will be traces to many “unethical” areas etc

That’s not the issue I have with it

The closed shop, the vast amounts being given to players just to be there - it’s just trying to buy a tour and in Norman’s case harm a tour, a tour which has a pathway for many young golfers

At no point do I state or use the word “we” in my post.

 

[Imurg]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551644508777074689

Plans for a 4up/4 down relegation /QSchool approach...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551644508777074689

Plans for a 4up/4 down relegation /QSchool approach...

A lot of fine print as well ?

Certain contracted players can’t be relegated ( Gmac breathes a sigh of relief ) , captains can’t be relegated

So it’s going to be about 10 players fighting against “relegation” - a player could play better than Mickleson all season but he stays and you go ?

If it’s sticking at 48 then the breathing room isn’t much for any new players

 

[Billysboots]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551644508777074689

Plans for a 4up/4 down relegation /QSchool approach...

So, you’re invited to join, then have to play in a Q School, and can be relegated? Sounds like a rather odd approach to a Tour which members can only join by resigning from their day job.

 

[Imurg]

Comes back to the question of what do the relegated players do..?
Will they be welcomed back on other Tours?
Probably raises more questions than it answers...again

 

[D-S]

Comes back to the question of what do the relegated players do..?
Will they be welcomed back on other Tours?
Probably raises more questions than it answers...again

And we already know who will be answering in the positive and who will be responding in the negative irrespective of the merits or otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Comes back to the question of what do the relegated players do..?
Will they be welcomed back on other Tours?
Probably raises more questions than it answers...again

It seems they go to the International Series ( Expanded Asian Tour ) ?‍

I guess with a bit of a golden handshake etc

Also it seems if a team doesn’t want you and doesn’t offer you a contract you will lose the rights to play on the LiV Tour

It’s a web of mess

 

[Backsticks]

It just gets worse and worse. Initially, I assumed the Saudis knew what they were doing, even if whether their effort would succeed against the pgat or not wasnt. The more that comes out now, the more it is revealed as a madcap disaster by people who have no idea what they are doing.
The more they reveal, the crazier it gets.
There is a strong suggestion that they are just making it up as they go along. And that the chief ideas man/woman has no background in golf.

 

[BubbaP]

Comes back to the question of what do the relegated players do..?
Will they be welcomed back on other Tours?
Probably raises more questions than it answers...again

No idea on future but do note that 3 players from Centurion have played 8 DP events between them since (welcomed may be wrong word!)

 

[Ethan]

The Trump Bedminster event will be a critical event. 9/11 families planning big press coverage and Trump is on record blaming Saudi for 9/11, although an an amoral hypocrite he is still happy to do business with them.

 

[Oddsocks]

Who is the “they”

PIF provided prize money for a golf tournament within the ET - the Saudi International and it came with a lot of criticism and some players didn’t play it.

They also provide money for the LET and imo that was full of hypocrisy because they talked a lot about womens rights etc then took the money - think there was a heated debate on here about it

Yes the origins on the money isn’t great but there will be traces to many “unethical” areas etc

That’s not the issue I have with it

The closed shop, the vast amounts being given to players just to be there - it’s just trying to buy a tour and in Norman’s case harm a tour, a tour which has a pathway for many young golfers

Edited - was supposed to be “they”

Do we really have to go back through 4600+ post to make a list of every Saudi linked sponsor in golf or global sports with an unethical back ground?

Or do we just make it easier and pretend it’s just LIV!

I agree the money be thrown around is outrageous, but so is some of the money footballers are paid and we have no issue with that on a global scale, or Hamiltons £45mil just to drive a broom broom …. There are endless examples.

Most new business start by throwing silly numbers around to get it off the floor and taken seriously, LIV is not the first and I’ll bet you a packet of wine gums it won’t be the last.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Further updates on the “Promotion Tournament”

I’m sure someone can explain it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551650275039105028

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551651333861687298

seems like they will be offering or allowing all those exempt ( majors winners , players in world rankings etc ). - the chance to play to try and qualify for 3 spots as 4 are relegated unless there are some players that a team owner or captain doesn’t want then they need to try and qualify again plus the 4 relegated- unless of course a player kicked out of the team has a contract that means he has to stay ?!

All seems pretty clear ?‍

 

[howbow88]

Comes back to the question of what do the relegated players do..?
Will they be welcomed back on other Tours?
Probably raises more questions than it answers...again

If they're not allowed back at all, or given some sort of lengthy ban before they can return (5 years let's say), I think that could be a pretty big deterrent. It wouldn't be nice for the players stuck in limbo, but if you sell your soul then I guess you have to accept the possible consequences.

 

[Backsticks]

I’m sure someone can explain it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551650275039105028

No problem. It's quite simple.

Each Promotion event will be a 3 day event if it isnt a 4 day event and doesn't include a 36 hole finale. Or a 4 day event if it isn't a 3 day event and doesn't include a 36 hole finale. Or a 5 day event if it is a 3 day event but includes a 36 hole finale played over 2 days. Or a 5 day event if it is a 4 day event and includes a 36 hole finale with the finale being 36 holes in the 1 day. Or a 4 day event if it is a 3 day event and includes a 36 hole finale over 1 day. Or a 6 day event if it is a 4 day event with a 36 hole finale over 2 days.

 

[Ethan]

Do we really have to go back through 4600+ post to make a list of every Saudi linked sponsor in golf or global sports with an unethical back ground?

Or do we just make it easier and pretend it’s just LIV!

I agree the money be thrown around is outrageous, but so is some of the money footballers are paid and we have no issue with that on a global scale, or Hamiltons £45mil just to drive a broom broom …. There are endless examples.

Most new business start by throwing silly numbers around to get it off the floor and taken seriously, LIV is not the first and I’ll bet you a packet of wine gums it won’t be the last.

No, we don't need to go through 4600+ posts. Nobody is pretending there isn't a sliding scale of dodginess, but few could really argue that the LIV Tour isn't pretty close to the most egregious end of that spectrum.

Taking money directly from the Saudi Royal Family is simply not the same as a hotel chain or a pharma company selling their product in Saudi Arabia. Do you believe that Saudis should not any in hotels or get medicines?

The LET sponsorship by Armco is fairly dodgy too, although the Saudis don't choose the field of players or control the media narrative around it in the same way they do with LIV.

The other factor here is Greg Norman, whose abrasiveness and relish at taking on the PGA Tour inflames the situation quite a bit.

 

[Backsticks]

Further updates on the “Promotion Tournament”

I’m sure someone can explain it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551650275039105028

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551651333861687298

seems like they will be offering or allowing all those exempt ( majors winners , players in world rankings etc ). - the chance to play to try and qualify for 3 spots as 4 are relegated unless there are some players that a team owner or captain doesn’t want then they need to try and qualify again plus the 4 relegated- unless of course a player kicked out of the team has a contract that means he has to stay ?!

All seems pretty clear ?‍

I think the great thing about that is that it really simplifies things. Such clarity will really draw in the more casual golf spectator, or ones who find 72 holes of stroke play just too confusing, and are put off the game.

 

[RRidges]

How generous of LIV to grant exemptions into the qualifying tournament for Major winners, PGA Tour winners, DP World Tour winners an top 75 OWGR. All competing for 4 places!
The arrogance is witheringly laughable!
On the other hand, the drip-fed PR is first rate!

 

[Pin-seeker]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551554331211694081

LIV Golf enthusiast ?
Certainly got some of the bed wetters biting ?

 

[Oddsocks]

Comes back to the question of what do the relegated players do..?
Will they be welcomed back on other Tours?
Probably raises more questions than it answers...again

This for me is the most important question, but it is also one with pros and cons which need to be weighed up.

An old childhood friend got to +4/5 and was on one of the euro tours (I can’t recall which exactly) he did this for few years with family support but will openly admit the pressure on Fridays made him hate the game. If he missed the cut he would have to go back to the family for travel fees, entry fees etc for the next event and he hated it. In his final year he come home from his final comp, weighed up how much he had earned over a period and how much the family had invested and it was a clear cut choice to quit there and then.

He went back into the family business, started a family and has now taken over as a joint owner of a very successful business. The only golf he plays is Sunday morning with his dad which he loves.

Using the above example someone finishing in the 40-48 in the first event would have made more than my pal did in 3/4 years just from the events he qualified for (not deducting the expenses for the events he didn’t) so you can 100% understand why up and comers have signed for LIV. It’s then down to them to decide to they make as much as they can in the year that they are attracting big names, cash in and if the tours don’t welcome them back go down another route such as a teaching pro with the exception of being mortgage free etc etc etc.

I don’t believe there is a right answer, only the individual can decide that. But having seen someone invest from their early teens through to their early 30’s only to still have not received much financial stability I can definitely appreciate the reasoning why.