Limiting the number of shots received in Matchplay

[FairwayDodger]

If it's a handicap comp then handicapping should be correctly applied. Full difference, adjust for SSS where mixed gender and/or different tees are used.

What's the point otherwise? No sense getting upset about it either, handicaps are just there to make the outcome random.

 

[chellie]

I was told at an CONGU function that full handicap difference in matchplay statistically results in 55% win for the lower handicap player. Before getting that figure I was sceptical that it was fair as 3/4 difference used to be more common when I were a lad and as a low capper was on the recieving end of some hidings from high hcap players.
A long as players have a fair handicap the system is ok. Some days a 28 capper will play to 18, some days to 40, nature of a high handicap is inconsistency so some days they'll be great others awful, if you're the low capper opponent and the 28 capper has a good day you might get hammered, but that's the rules and imo are fair.
The adjusted stableford scoring used in handicap setting should iron out how good a player is but a minimum of 3 cards submitted per year is too low to gauge ability correctly imo, think you need double that at least.

I am that 28 handicapper who has won a Board comp this year. Had to qualify over five rounds before it went to matchplay. Was given shots varying from 16 in the first match to 11 in the final. I have played the best golf I ever have done in those matches. Most memorable being the semi final when I was 7 up with 7 to play and hadn't lost a hole. Was given the match on the 11th. I enter every single competition so am way over the minimum of the three cards.

 

[Spear-Chucker]

Don't see how a limit can be put in place without being unfair to those at the real higher end of the hcp spectrum. You either have full difference or not - it's been decided that is the way so it should be full. The folks at the higher hcps by definition will struggle desperately with consistency so they need the help in all honesty - not trying to be patronising here, that's just how it is.

I still don't agree with the change from 3/4 (wow, how bitter is that after a few years still?!) but no matter. I chose to no longer play in these events as a result but chose scratch ones instead. Shame I get duffed up by full time amateurs in those ones but hey ho.

 

[irip]

I am that 28 handicapper who has won a Board comp this year. Had to qualify over five rounds before it went to matchplay. Was given shots varying from 16 in the first match to 11 in the final. I have played the best golf I ever have done in those matches. Most memorable being the semi final when I was 7 up with 7 to play and hadn't lost a hole. Was given the match on the 11th. I enter every single competition so am way over the minimum of the three cards.

Bandit!!!!


Only kidding congrats well done you:thup:

 

[Region3]

I'll be a sheep and agree with all those saying handicap is handicap so full allowance should be given.

I don't mind giving a shedload of shots. I do mind being shoehorned into a stereotype that says low hc's are moaners that think they have a divine right to victory.

There may be quite a few, but it's analogous to saying all BMW drivers are knobs

The low hc should still win more than the high hc, but I think the "moaning" stems from the fact that to a degree the low hc doesn't have their destiny in their own hands.
If the low hc has a great round the high hc will have to play very well, but it's doable.
If the high hc has a great round they win, simple as that. Nothing the low hc can do about it.

 

[HankMarvin]

I say good on your club, anybody needing more than one shot a hole shouldn't playing anyway IMHO

 

[Foxholer]

....
The low hc should still win more than the high hc, but I think the "moaning" stems from the fact that to a degree the low hc doesn't have their destiny in their own hands.
If the low hc has a great round the high hc will have to play very well, but it's doable.
If the high hc has a great round they win, simple as that. Nothing the low hc can do about it.

Absolutely agree with this!

But then, the same sort of thing happens with a 'Wild Willie' type of player - where the low capper is the 'Steady Eddie'! I know a guy who, as a mid 20-capper scored 45 points (plus 1 for the SSS cf Par!) a couple of times! One particular hole summed up the difference between our games. I play it as 2 shots with a Rescue, avoiding an alley of trees; he smashes Driver and can be anything from lost left, in the trees left or right, next fairway right with an LW to the pin, or putting for Eagle - which I've seen him make, when he was the opposition!

 

[Val]

Full hc allowance or change formats

Make it max 18 hc to enter or if it has to be fully inclusive have 2 divisional comps, 18 and below and 19 an above.

 

[Capella]

I say good on your club, anybody needing more than one shot a hole shouldn't playing anyway IMHO

I was somehow waiting for you to come along and say that ... somehow the thread wouldn't have been complete without it

 

[rosecott]

Our KO have a maximum of 18 shots given

How does that sit with the CONGU manual which states that the full difference in handicaps must be used in singles matchplay.

 

[rosecott]

I say good on your club, anybody needing more than one shot a hole shouldn't playing anyway IMHO

IMHO?

I can't recall any of your opinions being "humble".

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How does that sit with the CONGU manual which states that the full difference in handicaps must be used in singles matchplay.

Can you let me know exactly where that is in the manual please

Cheers

Edit : found it :thup:

 

[rosecott]

APPENDIX F HANDICAP ALLOWANCES FOR DIFFERENT FORMATS OF COMPETITION

Affiliated Clubs must use the following handicap allowances for the undernoted forms of competition when played as handicap events and, where relevant, for the calculation of the Competition Scratch Score in scratch competitions. The reference to handicaps in all cases refers to Playing Handicaps. Strokes must be taken according to the Handicap Stroke Index.

Match Play Singles Full difference between the handicaps of the players
Foursomes 1/2 difference between combined handicaps of each side
Four-ball Back marker to concede strokes to the other 3 players (better ball) based on 90% of the difference between the full handicaps

 

[patricks148]

Womens Golf is a whole other issue to mens. Not too many occasions where as a guy you could be giving away 20+ shots, but it must be common in womens.

Most of our Knock outs are seeded so you only ever meet in the latter stages, most ive ever given was 22 i think

 

[louise_a]

Indeed there are more chances of it happening in women's golf due to higher handicap limit.

Giving lots of shots doesn't bother me because it means I am that much better than they are, but I have found a few of our girls who think look at all the shots I have to give and go out with a negative attitude and so more often than not get beat.

 

[Tashyboy]

As much as I have been having a good year re winning comps and brass, most of my winning comps has been in the buffer zone. In or around 21 hcap.
Played in an open at Wollaton which was max 18 hcap and 90% of that I believe, in essence I was playing off 16. The differance between 21 and 16 is massive. But and this is a massive but, I knew the format before I rolled up on the first tee so I was not bothered one bit. Went to play a nice course, winning would of been secondary. oh ah if I was playing off 21 we would of been in the prizes, but you could of said that about other competitors.
To talk about changing the hcap allowance mid comp for me is a bit " sour grapes ", and does not paint the ladies section in a good light. But that has been said before just recently about ladies sections. 😳

 

[Foxholer]

As much as I have been having a good year re winning comps and brass, most of my winning comps has been in the buffer zone. In or around 21 hcap.
Played in an open at Wollaton which was max 18 hcap and 90% of that I believe, in essence I was playing off 16. The differance between 21 and 16 is massive. But and this is a massive but, I knew the format before I rolled up on the first tee so I was not bothered one bit. Went to play a nice course, winning would of been secondary. oh ah if I was playing off 21 we would of been in the prizes, but you could of said that about other competitors.

I believe that's a bit of a fiddle to make it non-qualifying - in the expectation that more entries will be received by such a policy!

I'm rather ambivalent about the whole idea of this sort of thing! It certainly appears to encourage more entries (an old club used 7/8ths for their Ladies Open for the same purpose and it 'worked well'!) and more entries generally means a better day for both competitors and the club! But it definitely goes against the Congu policy that every competition should be a qualifying one wherever possible!

 

[louise_a]

Not mid comp Tashy, they were suggesting it for future years.

 

[fundy]

Womens Golf is a whole other issue to mens. Not too many occasions where as a guy you could be giving away 20+ shots, but it must be common in womens.

Most of our Knock outs are seeded so you only ever meet in the latter stages, most ive ever given was 22 i think

did it twice in 2 rounds last year lol, 6 capper, played 28s back to back (managed to beat 1 of them)

 

[Tashyboy]

Not mid comp Tashy, they were suggesting it for future years.

Ave said this before Louise, but it's killing me at the mo re my hcap, scoring well but not playing well, but no hcap reduction. People on here and PPs have said the rules are you can win playing to hcap when it comes to collecting the brass. but when it comes to winning and picking up the club silverware or getting your name in gold letters on the wall of fame, well it seems to upset some folk. If I had the choice of playing off single figures ( which will never happen coz of a girlies drive) or playing off 21 give me the former anyday.
sometimes the little guys have there day, Leicester, Portugal, Danny Willet and others have shown that.
oh ah even the mighty tash when he won his first ever comp ( captains day playing with his bro and an ex lady captain).
Yup leave it as it is for me.