Keep it simple guys

[Foxholer]

The game is simple, if you learn the simple things well. These are the building blocks you need before you start trying to move the ball around.

Certainly agree with that.

Unfortunately, most (guys) start by trying to smash the Driver s far as they/we can. That's something that should only be allowed for the under 12s - and my jury is still out on whether that's the 'best' way. Could that also be one of the reasons that Ladies swings tend to look much better than Men's

It's their testicles!
They want everyone to know how big their testicles are and believe they can do this by hitting the ball mahoosive distances.
I think the male ego has a lot to answer for here. The harder/further they hit the ball, the more 'manly' they think they are.

this was posted while I was composing mine.

Takes the 'Keep it Simple' approach to my comment above it!

Now you can start to learn things like laying it off at the top for that gentle fade that lands softly on the green, instead of the gentle draw that lands just a little bit 'hot' and runs on a little bit. Seriously, the innate learning ability you've had since you were go-go gag-ga'ing of experimenting and copying can give you what you want providing you trust your natural instincts. The more 'plastic' your learning becomes, the longer it takes to become successful - not saying you won't achieve it but...

Here's here I see most issues...This stuff starts way to early for most imo. I'm still in the 'natural shape' mode, possibly because I haven't learnt to shape it 'unnaturally'. The number of mid to high handicap golfers I've watched take on shots, that only Pros should be considering, is ridiculous. The 1 in 100 that come off are great though!

So 'know your limitations' would be a pretty sound approach too!

 

[JustOne]

Nudging a 7 iron 140yds is easier to learn than smashing a 9 iron 140yds, but most of us still go for a hard WEDGE rather than a soft seven.

Fixed that for you





(big testicles!)

 

[mikee247]

Mmm, really should resist........ I really do try and stay out of these's threads, and especially those in the Ask The Experts section.

My version of keep it simple; if you take a neutral stance and grip, and are given a 7 iron and told to hit the ball 30yds you'll soon master it. Having mastered the 30yd shot, you're now told to hit it 60yds... not difficult, and with what you learned with the 30yd shot you just extend it up to 60yds. 120yds will give you a 3/4 swing but you're starting to get to your limits for the 7 iron...

Shock, horror! Swap the 7 iron for a 6 iron and the 120yd shot is suddenly easier, AND you can dial the distance up to 140yds quite easily. But, again, as you approach the limit for that club the results tail off. Change to a 5 iron and you're knocking it out towards 170yds without too much pain ---- I think you've probably got the hang of what I'm trying to 'promote.'

The above will give you a relatively safe way of navigating around a course. But when you add a slightly closed stance with a relatively strong grip, aiming for a draw, you've added some performance enhancing features but they come with the danger of missing right or turning it over. Get it right and it makes a positive difference, but get it wrong and it comes at a cost.

If you want to know if a tick tock, easy swing works get yourself down to the club midweek and watch an experienced 70yr old knock his 3 wood 170yds down the middle, his 5 wood 140yds to on or near the green then chip on and putt.

Now for something a little more complex. Learn to hit it badly - comes natural to some of us. Take your normal stance but a really strong grip. Hit half a doz balls to see what the result is. Then do the same with a really weak grip, and watch the results. You gain two things from this, 1) you learn what 'wrong' feels like, and 2) the next time you've got a tree in the way you now know how to bend it like Beckham. Also, you now know that between those two 'bad' feels there is a 'good' feel that gives good results.

Having mastered the keep it simple stuff you now have the feel for what gets it out there a reasonable distance and reasonably safely. Now you can start to learn things like laying it off at the top for that gentle fade that lands softly on the green, instead of the gentle draw that lands just a little bit 'hot' and runs on a little bit. Seriously, the innate learning ability you've had since you were go-go gag-ga'ing of experimenting and copying can give you what you want providing you trust your natural instincts. The more 'plastic' your learning becomes, the longer it takes to become successful - not saying you won't achieve it but...

The game is simple, if you learn the simple things well. These are the building blocks you need before you start trying to move the ball around.

Here endeth the lesson :thup: My little brain cant cope with all these swing changes, tech thoughts and analysis. I'm told Ive got a smooth tidy swing which confuses me when I hit it one day like a tour pro and the next like an orang-utan falling out of a tree Im going to get some basic easy to manage changes in place to get some constancy, sort my brain out and work on the confidence side of things.

 

[blackpuddinmonster]

Mmm, really should resist........ I really do try and stay out of these's threads, and especially those in the Ask The Experts section.

My version of keep it simple; if you take a neutral stance and grip, and are given a 7 iron and told to hit the ball 30yds you'll soon master it. Having mastered the 30yd shot, you're now told to hit it 60yds... not difficult, and with what you learned with the 30yd shot you just extend it up to 60yds. 120yds will give you a 3/4 swing but you're starting to get to your limits for the 7 iron...

Shock, horror! Swap the 7 iron for a 6 iron and the 120yd shot is suddenly easier, AND you can dial the distance up to 140yds quite easily. But, again, as you approach the limit for that club the results tail off. Change to a 5 iron and you're knocking it out towards 170yds without too much pain ---- I think you've probably got the hang of what I'm trying to 'promote.'

The above will give you a relatively safe way of navigating around a course. But when you add a slightly closed stance with a relatively strong grip, aiming for a draw, you've added some performance enhancing features but they come with the danger of missing right or turning it over. Get it right and it makes a positive difference, but get it wrong and it comes at a cost.

If you want to know if a tick tock, easy swing works get yourself down to the club midweek and watch an experienced 70yr old knock his 3 wood 170yds down the middle, his 5 wood 140yds to on or near the green then chip on and putt.

Now for something a little more complex. Learn to hit it badly - comes natural to some of us. Take your normal stance but a really strong grip. Hit half a doz balls to see what the result is. Then do the same with a really weak grip, and watch the results. You gain two things from this, 1) you learn what 'wrong' feels like, and 2) the next time you've got a tree in the way you now know how to bend it like Beckham. Also, you now know that between those two 'bad' feels there is a 'good' feel that gives good results.

Having mastered the keep it simple stuff you now have the feel for what gets it out there a reasonable distance and reasonably safely. Now you can start to learn things like laying it off at the top for that gentle fade that lands softly on the green, instead of the gentle draw that lands just a little bit 'hot' and runs on a little bit. Seriously, the innate learning ability you've had since you were go-go gag-ga'ing of experimenting and copying can give you what you want providing you trust your natural instincts. The more 'plastic' your learning becomes, the longer it takes to become successful - not saying you won't achieve it but...

The game is simple, if you learn the simple things well. These are the building blocks you need before you start trying to move the ball around.

:thup: Makes sense to me.
"Clever little Hobbitsies".​

 

[Snelly]

I agree with the simple approach. Get a pro that you trust to help you get three basic things sorted; grip, alignment and swing tempo.

After that, it is just a question of playing, practicing and self learning.

 

[pokerjoke]

Mmm, really should resist........ I really do try and stay out of these's threads, and especially those in the Ask The Experts section.

My version of keep it simple; if you take a neutral stance and grip, and are given a 7 iron and told to hit the ball 30yds you'll soon master it. Having mastered the 30yd shot, you're now told to hit it 60yds... not difficult, and with what you learned with the 30yd shot you just extend it up to 60yds. 120yds will give you a 3/4 swing but you're starting to get to your limits for the 7 iron...

Shock, horror! Swap the 7 iron for a 6 iron and the 120yd shot is suddenly easier, AND you can dial the distance up to 140yds quite easily. But, again, as you approach the limit for that club the results tail off. Change to a 5 iron and you're knocking it out towards 170yds without too much pain ---- I think you've probably got the hang of what I'm trying to 'promote.'

The above will give you a relatively safe way of navigating around a course. But when you add a slightly closed stance with a relatively strong grip, aiming for a draw, you've added some performance enhancing features but they come with the danger of missing right or turning it over. Get it right and it makes a positive difference, but get it wrong and it comes at a cost.

If you want to know if a tick tock, easy swing works get yourself down to the club midweek and watch an experienced 70yr old knock his 3 wood 170yds down the middle, his 5 wood 140yds to on or near the green then chip on and putt.

Now for something a little more complex. Learn to hit it badly - comes natural to some of us. Take your normal stance but a really strong grip. Hit half a doz balls to see what the result is. Then do the same with a really weak grip, and watch the results. You gain two things from this, 1) you learn what 'wrong' feels like, and 2) the next time you've got a tree in the way you now know how to bend it like Beckham. Also, you now know that between those two 'bad' feels there is a 'good' feel that gives good results.

Having mastered the keep it simple stuff you now have the feel for what gets it out there a reasonable distance and reasonably safely. Now you can start to learn things like laying it off at the top for that gentle fade that lands softly on the green, instead of the gentle draw that lands just a little bit 'hot' and runs on a little bit. Seriously, the innate learning ability you've had since you were go-go gag-ga'ing of experimenting and copying can give you what you want providing you trust your natural instincts. The more 'plastic' your learning becomes, the longer it takes to become successful - not saying you won't achieve it but...

The game is simple, if you learn the simple things well. These are the building blocks you need before you start trying to move the ball around.

Ahhh you make it sound so simple,if only It was.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Mmm, really should resist........ I really do try and stay out of these's threads, and especially those in the Ask The Experts section.

My version of keep it simple; if you take a neutral stance and grip, and are given a 7 iron and told to hit the ball 30yds you'll soon master it. Having mastered the 30yd shot, you're now told to hit it 60yds... not difficult, and with what you learned with the 30yd shot you just extend it up to 60yds. 120yds will give you a 3/4 swing but you're starting to get to your limits for the 7 iron...

Shock, horror! Swap the 7 iron for a 6 iron and the 120yd shot is suddenly easier, AND you can dial the distance up to 140yds quite easily. But, again, as you approach the limit for that club the results tail off. Change to a 5 iron and you're knocking it out towards 170yds without too much pain ---- I think you've probably got the hang of what I'm trying to 'promote.'

The above will give you a relatively safe way of navigating around a course. But when you add a slightly closed stance with a relatively strong grip, aiming for a draw, you've added some performance enhancing features but they come with the danger of missing right or turning it over. Get it right and it makes a positive difference, but get it wrong and it comes at a cost.

If you want to know if a tick tock, easy swing works get yourself down to the club midweek and watch an experienced 70yr old knock his 3 wood 170yds down the middle, his 5 wood 140yds to on or near the green then chip on and putt.

Now for something a little more complex. Learn to hit it badly - comes natural to some of us. Take your normal stance but a really strong grip. Hit half a doz balls to see what the result is. Then do the same with a really weak grip, and watch the results. You gain two things from this, 1) you learn what 'wrong' feels like, and 2) the next time you've got a tree in the way you now know how to bend it like Beckham. Also, you now know that between those two 'bad' feels there is a 'good' feel that gives good results.

Having mastered the keep it simple stuff you now have the feel for what gets it out there a reasonable distance and reasonably safely. Now you can start to learn things like laying it off at the top for that gentle fade that lands softly on the green, instead of the gentle draw that lands just a little bit 'hot' and runs on a little bit. Seriously, the innate learning ability you've had since you were go-go gag-ga'ing of experimenting and copying can give you what you want providing you trust your natural instincts. The more 'plastic' your learning becomes, the longer it takes to become successful - not saying you won't achieve it but...

The game is simple, if you learn the simple things well. These are the building blocks you need before you start trying to move the ball around.

Thank you for the most sensible and logical post on this entire thread :thup:

 

[Hobbit]

Nice post hairy feet... I mean Hobbit

Do you think we're too obsessed with swinging the club well, and hitting it too far, rather than SCORING?

Hairyfeet - yes I'm on the 'other' forum, as I am on 4 other golf forums. And as I posted on the 'other' forum, when recent issues were raised, I'm not interested in anything other than talking/bantering/playing golf. So if your first sentence was supposed to be in some way clever...don't drag me into that squabble. Petty points scoring is one of the reasons the mods occasionally, quite rightly, have had to step in. Lets stay away from that rubbish eh.

There's nothing wrong with trying to swing well, as swinging well will lead to hitting it further and scoring well. My point is about keeping it simple until you've mastered the simple aspects of the game.

An example of keeping it simple. Gareth posted a problem he was having with his swing. You posted pictures of coloured boxes and explanations of the positions his arms needed to be in - nowt wrong with that. But as you'll see from what I posted, you'd missed a basic alignment fault, closed stance/open upper body, that leads to the pull Gareth was describing. Its a common, basic fault, and simple to correct. The prescription you posted wouldn't have cured Gareth's problem - nowt wrong with prescribing those refinements when his swing is on track.

 

[JustOne]

An example of keeping it simple. Gareth posted a problem he was having with his swing. You posted pictures of coloured boxes and explanations of the positions his arms needed to be in - nowt wrong with that. But as you'll see from what I posted, you'd missed a basic alignment fault, closed stance/open upper body, that leads to the pull Gareth was describing. Its a common, basic fault, and simple to correct. The prescription you posted wouldn't have cured Gareth's problem - nowt wrong with prescribing those refinements when his swing is on track.

Are these the open shoulders you're referring to Hobbit?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Hobbit

I would bow out while you're ahead mate, JO will spend hours scouring the web desperately trying to find links, images and video clips to prove you wrong.

 

[JustOne]

Hobbit

I would bow out while you're ahead mate, JO will spend hours scouring the web desperately trying to find links, images and video clips to prove you wrong.

I don't need to D4S. That one picture says it all.


I agree with the other part of Hobbit's post though, there's rubbish we need to stay away from. My comment WAS petty, I apologise to Hobbit but it was well intended,.. I like it when he posts here.

 

[Region3]

So I agree, it's whatever floats your boat Personally, I'm a bit towards the techie stuff at the range, but (try to) let the swing happen on the course.

^^This.

I think far too much about the technical side of the swing, but on the range. On the course I try not to.

People go out with a swing thought or 2 (or 5!), hit a bad shot and instantly try to fix their swing on course.

We're human, and extremely unlikely to play 18 holes of golf without making a few bad swings, so a few bad shots - while not ideal - is nothing to get your knickers in a twist over. It's certainly not a good reason to try to change your swing mid-round.

 

[Foxholer]

An example of keeping it simple. Gareth posted a problem he was having with his swing. You posted pictures of coloured boxes and explanations of the positions his arms needed to be in - nowt wrong with that. But as you'll see from what I posted, you'd missed a basic alignment fault, closed stance/open upper body, that leads to the pull Gareth was describing. Its a common, basic fault, and simple to correct. The prescription you posted wouldn't have cured Gareth's problem - nowt wrong with prescribing those refinements when his swing is on track.

Don't care whether that particular example was right or wrong but, for a persistent issue, static fundamentals should always be checked. In my case, open hips, closed stance and shoulders somewhere in the target neighbourhood is pretty 'normal'!

 

[gdc]

I think there is merit in both lines of thought here.

Why simple is good

I played 9 holes on Wednesday and my strike started deteriorating quite rapidly so I went to the range on Sat morning prior to comp in the afternoon. 125 balls later and I text my partner saying I might as well throw my clubs away. Got to the course 40 mins early and when straight into the nets to try and find some sort of strike - it wasn't pretty. Then a member in the other net said I wasn't completing my back swing. BINGO! So I went out with one swing thought and came down 0.6.

Why technical is good

I am much more technical now than when I was younger and I have a much better understanding of the underlying causes for certain types of poor shot. This knowledge quite often helps me mid-round when I suddenly lose the strike.
It's sad but I even have a reserve swing to get me home when I totally lose it.


It's horses for courses so everyone is correct.

 

[JustOne]

I think far too much about the technical side of the swing, but on the range. On the course I try not to.

For me that's perfect. Learn/practice the technical stuff but because you're getting used to it by practicing it no longer feels technical at all, and doesn't cross your mind when you swing. Your swing improves in a natural progression. I don't think you can just stand there hitting balls and HOPE to get better.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

My swing is unique and fundamentally flawed technically but I do enjoy understanding how it works when I am swinging well and what is going wrong when I'm not. It is much, much better after the work I did last winter and the ball striking in 2013 is the best for many a year. The irony was I use to be way too obsessed on here with the technique about three years ago and a lot of luminaries told me to forget all that and just play. I am still enjoying learning about the swing and working with my teaching pro to strip layers away to make it as consistent as it can be given lousy parameters to work in, and then forgetting all about that the moment I step on the first tee and trust it and playing with an empty head

 

[CMAC]

My swing is unique and fundamentally flawed technically but I do enjoy understanding how it works when I am swinging well and what is going wrong when I'm not. It is much, much better after the work I did last winter and the ball striking in 2013 is the best for many a year. The irony was I use to be way too obsessed on here with the technique about three years ago and a lot of luminaries told me to forget all that and just play. I am still enjoying learning about the swing and working with my teaching pro to strip layers away to make it as consistent as it can be given lousy parameters to work in, and then forgetting all about that the moment I step on the first tee and trust it and playing with an empty head

Not a very kind way to talk about your playing partner..............

 

[Snelly]

For me that's perfect. Learn/practice the technical stuff but because you're getting used to it by practicing it no longer feels technical at all, and doesn't cross your mind when you swing. Your swing improves in a natural progression. I don't think you can just stand there hitting balls and HOPE to get better.

Not sure I quite agree with you JO. I think it depends on the person and their learning style. You can improve by just hitting balls and zero technical knowledge in my view. I know people that have learned this way and they are very good players too. Technical and detailed suits some but is useless to others. I can play quite well on my day and I know nowt on golf mechanics. Others could not function without thinking about it from a technical perspective.

If you hit enough balls, you will improve, of this there is no doubt. Golf is the same as any sport. Tennis - have a very basic understanding of grip, stance and swing tempo and then hit 100,000 forehands - you will have a good forehand. With golf, understand tempo, alignment and grip then play 5,000 rounds. You will be a good player in the end.

 

[Hunka Turf]

I don't think it's a valid argument to use someone like Robobum as an example as I would argue that golfers like him are very much in the minority.

We all know of people who are good players and have never had a lesson/don't know much about the swing. That's great and I envy those guys.

However, I reckon there are many, many more who know just as little and are by all accounts very poor golfers. So for every Robobum who's playing a very good standard of golf without thinking too technically, there are 10 players struggling to post a respectable score who would greatly benefit from some educated instruction.

 

[Snelly]

Hunka Turf.

That argument does not stack up. If you are a Cat 1 golfer then you are in the top 2% (or something like that anyway) of golfers in the world so you can say for every player off 2, there are loads of golfers who are not and the argument fits just about any golfing comparison you can choose.