Just hit someone with an errant tee shot

[bobmac]

I fell out of a tree once......didn't sue anyone.

 

[stevie_r]

And that is absolutely the point - have H&S getting involved and you could have problems. Look - we all know on our own tracks the places that you have to be watchful. So fo instance I know that if I'm in the heather on the left of our 7th I have to watch for players tee-ing off on our 6th as I could easy get hit. Now if I am a visitor I will not know that.

So my club is considering asking all visitors to read a 'risk' guide to the course. This would for instance say that when playing the 7th - if you are on the left in the heather watch out for players playing towards you off the 6th tee. Whether the visitor actually reads this or not - matters not - the club has done it's bit in respect of duty of care to visitors. This doesn't need fences or anything else. But if we don't do this, and as a result players get hurt, then H&S might plough in and tell us - 'move the 6th tee' - or 'put up a fence to avoid players balls going into the heather on the left'. And they might well unless we recognise where risk is and do something about it. There is no point in burying your head in the sand or being indignant telling Risk Assessors or whatever to stick it WTSDS.

So - for the club to be able to show it's duty of care to golfers it has to know where there is risk of being hit. And anecdotal stuff isn't good enough. The club has to know from players of incidents and keep a record of them. A clear audit path form the record of incidents; to understanding why the incidents occurred (context); to putting measures in place that are reasonable to mitigate against incidents happening (signs, trees, hedging, maybe fencing) ; to providing written guidance to golfers of where there is a greater than 'normal' risk of encountering flying balls. Thereby the club and it's members are reasonably covered from the possibility of litigation and perhaps even worse - H&S.

Excellently explained and quite correct. Unfortunately those who are resistant to any form of change will still refuse to see it and play the nanny state card.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Excellently explained and quite correct. Unfortunately those who are resistant to any form of change will still refuse to see it and play the nanny state card.

Thank you sir...

 

[garyinderry]

my brother got caught in the head while on the 1st tee 2 weeks back. someone sliced an approach to the 18th and shouted fore! he ducked and still managed to open his head which required 3 staples.

lovely sunny day ruined. the guy bought him a 3pack of pro v to say sorry. no signed glove though which I thought was rude. lol

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I note that my club's Risk Assessment (which I suspect some thought I was making up ) is now posted on our website with the request

We would ask all visitors to read our Course Risk Assessment Document before commencing play.

The risk assessment tells players of the risk associated with every hole - so for instance for our 2nd Hole - its a dog-leg par 4 with blind long 2nd shot (200yds+) to the green. You walk back up side of 2nd fairway to the 3rd tee. So...

Be aware of users on 1st fairway plus be aware when playing your approach shot that players may be walking back against play to the 3rd tee. Also be aware that players may be walking to the practice/chipping area via the track that runs adjacent to the fairway. Vision is restricted to the green; reduce risk by walking further down to ensure players have cleared the green and that the track to the left is clear. Warning signs and directions are in place. RR5

Note RR is Risk Rating assessed as 1-10

Now some may think this is over the top, however I think that it is absolutely sensible in this litigious day and age.

 

[TheClaw]

I got hit on the thigh two days ago! Got a cracking bruise.

The guy didn't sign a glove for me though

 

[GreiginFife]

I had a lucky escape on Sunday. The 7th and 8th are par 5's that run parallel to each other and a guy coming up the 7th hit a wayward shot and shouted. Both me and playing partner ducked and covered. I could even hear it coming toward me, it hit my on the back but luckily the wind had puffed up my jacket to create a nice wee air cusion. Still hurt like hell and I have a bruise just below my ribs.
I don't blame the guy though as I hit a few wayward ones that day too, it happens and while there are loads of folk about there is always a risk. I accepted that risk when I stepped on to the course, didn't expect to get hit.
The guy apologised and we sat and had a laugh about it in the clubhouse afterward.

Yes, it hurt and I was lucky but it's just one of those things that can happen. I feel I always run the risk of smashing myself with the ball when playing out of trees, would I sue myself? Actually....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I had a lucky escape on Sunday. The 7th and 8th are par 5's that run parallel to each other and a guy coming up the 7th hit a wayward shot and shouted. Both me and playing partner ducked and covered. I could even hear it coming toward me, it hit my on the back but luckily the wind had puffed up my jacket to create a nice wee air cusion. Still hurt like hell and I have a bruise just below my ribs.
I don't blame the guy though as I hit a few wayward ones that day too, it happens and while there are loads of folk about there is always a risk. I accepted that risk when I stepped on to the course, didn't expect to get hit.
The guy apologised and we sat and had a laugh about it in the clubhouse afterward.

Yes, it hurt and I was lucky but it's just one of those things that can happen. I feel I always run the risk of smashing myself with the ball when playing out of trees, would I sue myself? Actually....

Good you weren't hurt - though I do wonder why we always make light of H&S and risk - and we do tend to scoff at it.

The main drawback with taking the risk management approach is that we have to make sure that we properly identify all risks. I noted reading the risk assessments for a couple of holes that a couple of key risks have not been fully recognised in the assessments for these holes. Were a serious incident to occur that is almost more of a problem than not having a risk assessment at all. I will mention my observations to our secretary (I can see me talking myself into a Risk Manager position on the committee )

 

[londonlewis]

you could always get insurance if you are that worried about being sued.

I remember playing in Richmond park once when someone in the group ahead of us almost got 'hit' by one of the guys in my 4-ball.
The group ahead had holed out and were all moving towards the next tee, except for one individual who scored the hole 10 foot to the right of the green. My mate hit his shot which must have landed and started to roll at least 50 yards before this gentleman who was watching it the whole way.
The ball then rolled past his foot and stopped about a yard past him.
He waited for us as we approached the green to then say 'That nearly hit me!' .... we did the only thing that made sense at the time which was to ignore him and walk away.

Don't mark your card next to the green you stupid a$$hole and don't stand there watching a ball roll all the way up to your feet to then claim it almost hit you. I'm convinced some people are looking to winge about being hit, others are unlucky enough to actually get hit and we all hope that any resulting injuries are not serious and do not cut any golf careers short.

 

[GreiginFife]

Good you weren't hurt - though I do wonder why we always make light of H&S and risk - and we do tend to scoff at it.

The main drawback with taking the risk management approach is that we have to make sure that we properly identify all risks. I noted reading the risk assessments for a couple of holes that a couple of key risks have not been fully recognised in the assessments for these holes. Were a serious incident to occur that is almost more of a problem than not having a risk assessment at all. I will mention my observations to our secretary (I can see me talking myself into a Risk Manager position on the committee )

Perosnally, I make light of it as, as with most risk practices, it generally doesn't demonstrate the propensity for the risk to maifest.
I know that stepping out on to a large open area where a very hard ball is being pinged around at over 100mph with very little in the way of accurate control (consistently) carries a risk. If I don't accept that risk then I don't play, regardless of a risk assessment being carried out, it's still my choice to be there.
If I were to asses the risk on the hole mentioned I would definitely identify that the open area between the fir copse and the Ash copse represents a risk of being hit with an errant shot. But for me to, personally, be satisfied that the risk was rated I would need to undrstand the propensity for the risk to manifest. Size of a golf ball, possible trajectory paths, potential positions of people etc.
The risk assessment is one thing, but I still accept that accidents will happen where the risk cannot be completely mitigated.
And show me a golf course that's had a full risk mitigation carried out and I bet it would be horrible, sad but true.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Perosnally, I make light of it as, as with most risk practices, it generally doesn't demonstrate the propensity for the risk to maifest.

Exactly - that is why members and visitors are asked to report all hits and near misses to the pro shop on completion of their round. We get facts to adjust our risk assessment.

I know that stepping out on to a large open area where a very hard ball is being pinged around at over 100mph with very little in the way of accurate control (consistently) carries a risk. If I don't accept that risk then I don't play, regardless of a risk assessment being carried out, it's still my choice to be there.

'Knowing' doesn't cut it legally or on H&S grounds I'm afraid. Risks need to be documented and players asked to make themselves aware of these. This is a club duty-of-care to members - but especially visitors who may well not 'know' where the specific risks are.

If I were to asses the risk on the hole mentioned I would definitely identify that the open area between the fir copse and the Ash copse represents a risk of being hit with an errant shot.

Covered I believe in the RA - the area in the 'dog leg' itself is not so risky as it at the highest point of the hole and players are visible i that area.

But for me to, personally, be satisfied that the risk was rated I would need to undrstand the propensity for the risk to manifest.

Indeed - again why members and visitors are asked to report all hits and near misses to the pro shop on completion of their round. We get facts to adjust our risk assessment.

Size of a golf ball, possible trajectory paths, potential positions of people etc.

Absolutely - though I am not sure you are serious with this but I understand your point

The risk assessment is one thing, but I still accept that accidents will happen where the risk cannot be completely mitigated.

Yup - accidents will happen. My club just has to show that it has implemented all reasonable risk mitigations - one mitigation being making players aware of areas where there is a risk of getting struck by a wayward shot.

And show me a golf course that's had a full risk mitigation carried out and I bet it would be horrible, sad but true.

What would be horrible - the course? Where the risk of being hit is mitigated to ZERO? - yes absolutely agree, each hole completely fenced and roofed in with netting - that is why you do 100% to keep H&S away.

 

[GreiginFife]

Why would I not be serios about size of a golf ball? The propensity of the risk is based on probability factors. The probability is driven by all involved factors. As the golf ball is principle to the risk then if the ball was 1m accross then the risk of hitting an object 50cm across in a space, say, 5m wide is much greater than a ball of 5cm hitting an object of the same size.
I understand that near misses should be recorded for the protection of the club but all I am saying is that just because a risk assessment has been carried out it doesn't mitigate the risk from manifesting. We all accept that risk (visitor or not, that just increases the propensity if they don't know where the "hot-spots" are) that an accident can happen.
The risk assessment en-seperatis doesn't remove the risk unless an action is taken to physically alter the factors involved to do so (like a fence in the space between the copses).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why would I not be serios about size of a golf ball? The propensity of the risk is based on probability factors. The probability is driven by all involved factors. As the golf ball is principle to the risk then if the ball was 1m accross then the risk of hitting an object 50cm across in a space, say, 5m wide is much greater than a ball of 5cm hitting an object of the same size.
I understand that near misses should be recorded for the protection of the club but all I am saying is that just because a risk assessment has been carried out it doesn't mitigate the risk from manifesting. We all accept that risk (visitor or not, that just increases the propensity if they don't know where the "hot-spots" are) that an accident can happen.
The risk assessment en-seperatis doesn't remove the risk unless an action is taken to physically alter the factors involved to do so (like a fence in the space between the copses).

I'd agree with you on the golf ball aspect if it were not for the fact that a golf ball is a standard size.

The other aspects again you are quite right - from the players perspective. I'm looking at the risk assessment being an important self-protection measure from the club's perspective - it's as much a mitigation of the risk of the club being sued as a risk mitigation guidance for golfers. That said for visitors it must surely be useful to know where the main areas where the risk being hit. If I was a visitor I'd try and remember the holes with a Risk Rating of 7 or above so I'm aware - rather than have me wander about unaware that the call from over the hill was warning me of a potential man/ball collision.

 

[Yosser]

Just hit someone with a drive - horrible feeling seeing someone lying on the ground. Yelled "Fore" and apparently it was his own fault for not ducking but still not a nice feeling. Just hope he's OK. At least it stopped my ball going into a hazard and I made par on the hole! Insurance is all covered but I spent the rest of the round trying to put it out of my head.

I find this ironic as I hooked an approach shot last week towards a pond, luckily the ball hit a duck which stopped it going into the hazard. Think I made bogey. :lol:

 

[DappaDonDave]

A guy teed off whilst we were in clear view and well within striking distance, so I stomped his ball into the ground.

Didn't say a peep...must've shat himself as he only played 9. Bbbbrrrrraaaap

 

[stevelev]

I find this ironic as I hooked an approach shot last week towards a pond, luckily the ball hit a duck which stopped it going into the hazard. Think I made bogey. :lol:

Birdie and a bogey on the same hole, now thats a 1st

 

[Dellboy]

Been off work for the last 4 days due to getting a ball in the back of me head, thankfully not a drive but a poorly hit 80ish yr chip, he hit it a bit thin and I ended up face down on the green and out cold for 15-20 seconds, or so I was told.

Not nice at all and no glove from him either, did have a good few beers later on and a good laugh about it, not a lot else you can do !!

 

[Siren]

Been off work for the last 4 days due to getting a ball in the back of me head, thankfully not a drive but a poorly hit 80ish yr chip, he hit it a bit thin and I ended up face down on the green and out cold for 15-20 seconds, or so I was told.

Not nice at all and no glove from him either, did have a good few beers later on and a good laugh about it, not a lot else you can do !!

You got knocked out and thought it was a good idea to have a beer afterwards?

 

[DappaDonDave]

You got knocked out and thought it was a good idea to have a beer afterwards?

Could not think of a better idea.

A worse idea would have been boxing.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Been off work for the last 4 days due to getting a ball in the back of me head, thankfully not a drive but a poorly hit 80ish yr chip, he hit it a bit thin and I ended up face down on the green and out cold for 15-20 seconds, or so I was told.

Not nice at all and no glove from him either, did have a good few beers later on and a good laugh about it, not a lot else you can do !!

Were you aware you were in danger of being hit?

And what is the difference between what happened to you and a whiplash injury? Hmmm...plenty of insurers just pay up for whiplash injuries sustained by a 3rd party and associated time off work etc when their insured party is responsible for the collision and injury. And we all drive knowing the associated risks - but that doesn't seem to stop the claims going in and insurers paying out.

And so to you - that's what golf insurance is for after all. You going to make a claim off the guy then.

[only semi-serious - honest]