bobmac
Major Champion
I fell out of a tree once......didn't sue anyone.
And that is absolutely the point - have H&S getting involved and you could have problems. Look - we all know on our own tracks the places that you have to be watchful. So fo instance I know that if I'm in the heather on the left of our 7th I have to watch for players tee-ing off on our 6th as I could easy get hit. Now if I am a visitor I will not know that.
So my club is considering asking all visitors to read a 'risk' guide to the course. This would for instance say that when playing the 7th - if you are on the left in the heather watch out for players playing towards you off the 6th tee. Whether the visitor actually reads this or not - matters not - the club has done it's bit in respect of duty of care to visitors. This doesn't need fences or anything else. But if we don't do this, and as a result players get hurt, then H&S might plough in and tell us - 'move the 6th tee' - or 'put up a fence to avoid players balls going into the heather on the left'. And they might well unless we recognise where risk is and do something about it. There is no point in burying your head in the sand or being indignant telling Risk Assessors or whatever to stick it WTSDS.
So - for the club to be able to show it's duty of care to golfers it has to know where there is risk of being hit. And anecdotal stuff isn't good enough. The club has to know from players of incidents and keep a record of them. A clear audit path form the record of incidents; to understanding why the incidents occurred (context); to putting measures in place that are reasonable to mitigate against incidents happening (signs, trees, hedging, maybe fencing) ; to providing written guidance to golfers of where there is a greater than 'normal' risk of encountering flying balls. Thereby the club and it's members are reasonably covered from the possibility of litigation and perhaps even worse - H&S.
Excellently explained and quite correct. Unfortunately those who are resistant to any form of change will still refuse to see it and play the nanny state card.
We would ask all visitors to read our Course Risk Assessment Document before commencing play.
Be aware of users on 1st fairway plus be aware when playing your approach shot that players may be walking back against play to the 3rd tee. Also be aware that players may be walking to the practice/chipping area via the track that runs adjacent to the fairway. Vision is restricted to the green; reduce risk by walking further down to ensure players have cleared the green and that the track to the left is clear. Warning signs and directions are in place. RR5
I had a lucky escape on Sunday. The 7th and 8th are par 5's that run parallel to each other and a guy coming up the 7th hit a wayward shot and shouted. Both me and playing partner ducked and covered. I could even hear it coming toward me, it hit my on the back but luckily the wind had puffed up my jacket to create a nice wee air cusion. Still hurt like hell and I have a bruise just below my ribs.
I don't blame the guy though as I hit a few wayward ones that day too, it happens and while there are loads of folk about there is always a risk. I accepted that risk when I stepped on to the course, didn't expect to get hit.
The guy apologised and we sat and had a laugh about it in the clubhouse afterward.
Yes, it hurt and I was lucky but it's just one of those things that can happen. I feel I always run the risk of smashing myself with the ball when playing out of trees, would I sue myself? Actually....
Good you weren't hurt - though I do wonder why we always make light of H&S and risk - and we do tend to scoff at it.
The main drawback with taking the risk management approach is that we have to make sure that we properly identify all risks. I noted reading the risk assessments for a couple of holes that a couple of key risks have not been fully recognised in the assessments for these holes. Were a serious incident to occur that is almost more of a problem than not having a risk assessment at all. I will mention my observations to our secretary (I can see me talking myself into a Risk Manager position on the committee)
Perosnally, I make light of it as, as with most risk practices, it generally doesn't demonstrate the propensity for the risk to maifest.
I know that stepping out on to a large open area where a very hard ball is being pinged around at over 100mph with very little in the way of accurate control (consistently) carries a risk. If I don't accept that risk then I don't play, regardless of a risk assessment being carried out, it's still my choice to be there.
If I were to asses the risk on the hole mentioned I would definitely identify that the open area between the fir copse and the Ash copse represents a risk of being hit with an errant shot.
But for me to, personally, be satisfied that the risk was rated I would need to undrstand the propensity for the risk to manifest.
Size of a golf ball, possible trajectory paths, potential positions of people etc.
The risk assessment is one thing, but I still accept that accidents will happen where the risk cannot be completely mitigated.
And show me a golf course that's had a full risk mitigation carried out and I bet it would be horrible, sad but true.
Why would I not be serios about size of a golf ball? The propensity of the risk is based on probability factors. The probability is driven by all involved factors. As the golf ball is principle to the risk then if the ball was 1m accross then the risk of hitting an object 50cm across in a space, say, 5m wide is much greater than a ball of 5cm hitting an object of the same size.
I understand that near misses should be recorded for the protection of the club but all I am saying is that just because a risk assessment has been carried out it doesn't mitigate the risk from manifesting. We all accept that risk (visitor or not, that just increases the propensity if they don't know where the "hot-spots" are) that an accident can happen.
The risk assessment en-seperatis doesn't remove the risk unless an action is taken to physically alter the factors involved to do so (like a fence in the space between the copses).
Just hit someone with a drive - horrible feeling seeing someone lying on the ground. Yelled "Fore" and apparently it was his own fault for not ducking but still not a nice feeling. Just hope he's OK. At least it stopped my ball going into a hazard and I made par on the hole! Insurance is all covered but I spent the rest of the round trying to put it out of my head.
I find this ironic as I hooked an approach shot last week towards a pond, luckily the ball hit a duck which stopped it going into the hazard. Think I made bogey. :lol:
Been off work for the last 4 days due to getting a ball in the back of me head, thankfully not a drive but a poorly hit 80ish yr chip, he hit it a bit thin and I ended up face down on the green and out cold for 15-20 seconds, or so I was told.
Not nice at all and no glove from him either, did have a good few beers later on and a good laugh about it, not a lot else you can do !!
You got knocked out and thought it was a good idea to have a beer afterwards?
Been off work for the last 4 days due to getting a ball in the back of me head, thankfully not a drive but a poorly hit 80ish yr chip, he hit it a bit thin and I ended up face down on the green and out cold for 15-20 seconds, or so I was told.
Not nice at all and no glove from him either, did have a good few beers later on and a good laugh about it, not a lot else you can do !!