Juniors and competing with adults

[Robobum]

I can't feel sorry for them really.

So they can't enter senior medals, boo hoo.

Don't feel sorry for them Murph, they wouldn't want your pity anyway.
By having the juniors join the adult competitions they get to see how the adults act in regard to etiquette, rules as well as integrating them properly into your club. Or is the future of your club not important as soon as you've had your use of it??

As for them paying only a 1/4 of the adult subs?!?! For f***s sake, do you want them down the mines earning a crust so they can pay full whack?!?!

 

[USER1999]

No, I don't want them down the mines, that would be stupid, but I think for £200, they get a very good deal.

As previously pointed out, they can play in the comp, with adults, they can get cut, they just can't win it. They get the experience, and the handicap cut, but no trophy or money.

Yes, they are the future of the club, and that is why they will have heavily subsidised fees up until they are 24 (possibly 19 years of discounted fees, and £200 is a fifth, not a quarter). To me, I can't see how they can complain, and ours on the whole don't. There are many courses where juniors have no standing on the course. Ours, I think are well looked after. There are about 70 of them, so we can't be doing that badly.

If the only complaint is they can't win a board comp, apart from the club championship (which they can enter if their h/cap is low enough), then they don't have much to complain about.

I think the free lessons deal is fantastic, and really starts them off on the right foot, to get them hooked on the game. Wish it had been around when I was learning.

As a male member, I can't enter womens comps, seniors comps, junior comps, the scratch comps. I don't think it is selfish in the slightest to have the odd comp that I am allowed to enter, especially as it is members like me, paying full subs who subsidise the rest of the concessions.

The future of the club is in the juniors, but it is the current full members who hold the immediate future, and if you lose those, there will be nothing to inherit.

 

[Cernunnos]

RND, the juniors should at least be given the choice of reduced fee for reduced return, or be allowed topayfull entry fee for comp, for the full return.

What it really boils down to is Full Adult members probably see it as an affront & an embaressment to be beaten by Juniors on the course, as these days there are loads of juniors coming through, very talented with no fear & without the mental bagage of most Adult & senior golfers.

Really if Juniors are going to be allowed to enter Adult comps, then they should expect full return from full entry fee, otherwise it may as well be a seperate event.

 

[CarpeDiem]

To be blunt Juniors pay a lot less than men and lady members, so why should they have the same 'rights' as those who pay full whack?

 

[USER1999]

No one has mentioned 5 day members.

They really get the smelly end of the stick.

No comps (well, ok, one midweek stableford held during office hours), no weekend golf, no bank holiday golf, similar subs (slightly cheaper, but not much), no free lessons, no dedicated practice time, no comps of their own, no free opens, no club matches. What a poor deal. But sadly, because they are adults, no one gives a stuff.

 

[Leftie]

You say that the junior comps on their own are not necessarily enough to get some players cut regularly enough, and then say that there are limited places in the more regular adult competitions for juniors (something you seemingly agree with) so presumingly quite a few miss out on places in these; so how can that possibly "help to get the b*33ers cut" ? It means they play in less competitions as their participation in adult events is discouraged by the elder members and they only play in the junior events which as you said yourself are often not regular enough to keep up with players development.

I may not be as eloquent in my posts as some on this forum but I think that you have completely mis-interpreted or mis-understood the points I was trying to convey i.e....

Our juniors have as many, if not more comps, as the 7 day adult members. If they are keen to play in further comps for experience and for h/cap purposes then they are actively encouraged to join in with the adult comps provided that they are not preventing the adult members from competing. As they are restricted to playing after 12.00 at weekends anyway this means that spring - autumn many of them who want to, can play in the afternoons when more tee times are available to them as a greater proportion of the adult members prefer playing in the morning.

As it happens, not that many juniors acually want to play in our comps. It's usually only the low handicappers and those "on a roll" who do so very few actually (as you put it) miss out. In fact those who do play in are playing more comps than their peers, not less as you said.

Also this attitude towards youngsters staying in their own competitions etc and not mixing with the adults is surely only going to establish divides within the club? I'm not sure, but I would expect this to be the overall effect.

Where on earth did this come from

 

[theeaglehunter]

You say that the junior comps on their own are not necessarily enough to get some players cut regularly enough, and then say that there are limited places in the more regular adult competitions for juniors (something you seemingly agree with) so presumingly quite a few miss out on places in these; so how can that possibly "help to get the b*33ers cut" ? It means they play in less competitions as their participation in adult events is discouraged by the elder members and they only play in the junior events which as you said yourself are often not regular enough to keep up with players development.

I may not be as eloquent in my posts as some on this forum but I think that you have completely mis-interpreted or mis-understood the points I was trying to convey i.e....

Our juniors have as many, if not more comps, as the 7 day adult members. If they are keen to play in further comps for experience and for h/cap purposes then they are actively encouraged to join in with the adult comps provided that they are not preventing the adult members from competing. As they are restricted to playing after 12.00 at weekends anyway this means that spring - autumn many of them who want to, can play in the afternoons when more tee times are available to them as a greater proportion of the adult members prefer playing in the morning.

As it happens, not that many juniors acually want to play in our comps. It's usually only the low handicappers and those "on a roll" who do so very few actually (as you put it) miss out. In fact those who do play in are playing more comps than their peers, not less as you said.

Also this attitude towards youngsters staying in their own competitions etc and not mixing with the adults is surely only going to establish divides within the club? I'm not sure, but I would expect this to be the overall effect.

Where on earth did this come from

Firstly apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick from your first post, but it did come across to me as the view of someone at a club who are anti junior golfers.

In your first post you say that juniors do not get enough comps to maintain a truthful handicap and then you say they get more than everyone else which is a tad confusing .

And what embedded my initial (perhaps wrong) interpretation of your post were the way your ending sentence was suggestive of you wanting 'to put juniors in their place' as such, and at the beginning agreeing with clubs restricting the play of juniors which is your opinion but certainly not mine.

Anyway i don't wish to cause conflict and get your back up over this, but if you read your first post back it gives a completely different perspective on your / your clubs view on junior golfers as your latest post. This may not be the case but its the way it came across. For one point it certainly is not suggestive of a club who actively encourage junior participation in mens competitions.

I just believe juniors should be encouraged as much as possible to play as much as they can and get their handicap as low as possible, which following your most recent post seems to be a view you at least partially share which is great.

 

[Herbie]

They pretty much all want to get cut, it is just impossible to keep up with their progress, until they get to the law of diminishing returns, normally around 5 h/cap.

Seriously, 50 points is needed to win any junior comp, so the better golfers in the junior ranks don't bother with them.

If they enter one comp a month, then in a 4 week slot between comps, anything can happen.

I understand what you are saying now, but surely the committee are keeping an eye on things, still you should be proud to have such a junior standard of play

 

[Herbie]

If juniors pay the same ammount to enter the comp then they should be entitled to full prize.

If juniors are always winning comps with a significantly high scoring, then this is down to club committee and/or club pro to control.

I have not played at clubs where young guns do all the winning of comps they enter and those that do win dont win by huge margins, maybe thats down to a pro keeping in touch with the juniors and committee also.

I dont see why h/c monitoring of juniors as being too difficult. Yet if I was a member at a club where juniors had a great rep for play standards, I would be looking at the pro of that club to give ME lessons!

When I play these youngsters it gives me a little extra impetus and determination to beat them, even if I dont, as they are often fearless and very good golfers.

As murph said, scoring 50 points in a comp is outrageous for anyone, but I have come across many scores like that or close to by adult members but I havent yet come across such scoring when juniors are playing, maybe its horses for courses and nothing more.

 

[Leftie]

No worries M8. It's sad but true that since I retired my writing skills have diminished through lack of constant use.

We do all we reasonably can to encourage juniors and we have an excellent bunch of lads and lasses.

Our main problem with the better juniors is keeping them once they get to scratch and below. Although a few years ago we were an Open Qualifier course, they now tend to move on to more challanging courses

 

[feary]

hi,

i though you might want a view of a junior as i am 14. i play in my clubs tournaments all the time and i win the same amount as anyone else if i win. Like the other day i won the weekday medal with a 77.(best ever). I would be insulted if this hapened at my club. Personally i think some adults are just afraid of losing to a junior.

age - 14
hcap-18

 

[Basher]

I think a lot depends on how active your junior section is at your club.
The junior section at mine is complete pants! They pay their money (ok ata reduced rate) but there is nothing for them. The only thing they get out of it is the chance to play golf on the course.
No weekly comps, no activities. What chance for the future of the club if juniors are not encouraged and no facilities provided?
If your club has an active and thriving junior section, be thankful..... your club has a future!

 

[RND]

I started this thread and i have to say its been intriguing seeing how different peoples views are and the ways in which clubs deal with Junior members.
One of the most common views is that Juniors are "the future of the club". I put this to our committee and was told that in fact this statistically is not the case. It seems that the vast majority of members at our club were not juniors at the same club and thats a "valid argument" for not dealing with them so fairly !

I feel that it is every clubs duty to deal with their juniors fairly and with encouragement because one day they will be senior members somewhere. Our juniors might one day join your club and vice versa. so i dont feel that argument holds water.

Anyway im gonna run for committee this year and sort the old buggers out !!

 

[Cernunnos]

No one has mentioned 5 day members.

They really get the smelly end of the stick.

No comps (well, ok, one midweek stableford held during office hours), no weekend golf, no bank holiday golf, similar subs (slightly cheaper, but not much), no free lessons, no dedicated practice time, no comps of their own, no free opens, no club matches. What a poor deal. But sadly, because they are adults, no one gives a stuff.

To risk going off topic, I must admit it is a big bug bear of mine, that as a 5 day member midweek comps are few & far between & yet still pay not that much less than a 7 day member. As I work a lot of weekends & those few weekends still available to me as free time rather than work time they are to be spent with family, rather than on the course.

I really do prefer to play during the week. But no decent comps, & little opertunity to maintain a handicap. & if I do enter a comp on a weekend I need to pay extra, which defeats to object of paying a 5 day membership, especially with the barely significant differance in outlay between full & five day fees.

I'd go so far as to say 5 day members should be given the option to be a season ticket & less money outlay, rathr than a comp entering membership, considering how few competitions 5 day members are actually able to enter over the year on week days.

 

[viscount17]

I hadn't until now looked at 5-day membership in quite this light. I took 5-day because I couldn't play weekends so the extra fees were wasted. Therefore if I get a weekend free I tend to arrange an away day with a mate, I like playing new courses.

But, it does mean that I am effectively limited to one comp a month. There are others that I could, theoretically play, but there just not that many days holiday available to me.