Is your club Charging Fees for the time the course will be closed?

[Jacko_G]

Paid in full in Jan, if it's a prolonged closure then id like to see my membership extended by the same amount, or a pro rata discount next year.
But nothing from the club beyond we're closed .

Can I ask why you feel that way? I'm genuinely interested.

Clubs will still be paying wages to greens staff, paying fuel for the course maintenance, paying for feed and fertilizers etc. They'll also still be paying insurance premiums, bills, rates etc etc. It's not as if the club has suddenly incurred no running costs during this period.

Again I appreciate you're entitled to your view and you may think I'm wrong but for me this years fees are still contributing to the running of the club and the management of my club until such times as its deemed fit to resume golfing. Unprecedented times these for golf courses and by discounting next year they could be making a rod for their own backs.

 

[Crazyface]

Wow, this has only just kicked in, so let’s say for an example it runs to end of July, so you've lost 4mths and a couple of weeks, but let’s factor it to 6mths, let’s say ANNUAL subs are £1k, and let’s say you can get to play twice a week, so if you then don’t think your course is worth a green fee of less than £20 a day, (you’ve enjoyed £10 in the past on similar example) then maybe you’re more suited to being a nomad and going to a pay & play course, because if you were a member of my club and displaying such a lack of empathy to those running it, I’d be calling an egm to have you removed!

I've paid mine. So ner. I was arguing the other sides case. To continue. If the clubs really are "members clubs", they should be signed up as such, with some sort of share entitlement. But you are not. You are a member of the club for one golfing year and pay your subs accordingly for that defined year ONLY. For clubs to be fully "members clubs" you really need to tie them in. How? Dunno. A joining fee was one way. But who got a share certificate when they paid theirs? No one, I'll wager. Then you could remove that shareholding if you did not renew each year. But that didn't happen did it? So these so called "members clubs" aren't really are they? THey are a club that you join each year. And this means golfers have a choice. Sure, it would be a shame if courses closed. There are a few around me that are in trouble, well aren't most? But this is down to poor management IMO. I know one I was at had a load of old bloke throwing a huge monitary legacy around and they had a fantastic course with greens to die for, but when the money ran out, they all jumped off the committees and ran. Leaving one bloke to sort the mess out, which he has done but boy it was close to going under.
So if your "members clubs" are struggling. Ask yourself why.

 

[richbeech]

I've not heard anything from my club yet however I do believe they are preparing to send some correspondence out. I can't deny that freezing my membership would be a help, especially when my partner is self employed and now can't work so I've got to cover all of the household bills which will leave us with very little disposable income every month until this has all blown over.

I do recognise that clubs are still going to need income though and I would accept still paying my fees if they offered money off next year's fees (which are due in June) or credit in the pro shop. Just figuratively speaking, say the club was closed for 4 months that's £320 I will have paid. If they offered me say £150-£200 credit in the pro shop as a gesture of good will after this has all blown over I'd be happy with that.

 

[Papas1982]

I only joined March 1st, having chosen to go somewhere at quite an increase of cost. So far we‘ve been emailed a couple of time. Predominately just with the updates as government sent out advice. Yesterday’s email was an array of photos showing the work the green staff are doing.
This is the first year my club haven’t had a joining fee, I’d imagine if the troubles continue they may add one again to convince people not to leave.

im happy to pay my fees as I hope to be here for the foreseeable future, but will admit that if money got tight. Then I would reconsider. Golf is my favourite luxury, but it’s a luxury none the less. I’d cut it out even if we could still play if it wasn’t affordable, but been as nobody can play atm. I fully understand why it’s probably Beijing treated like a gym Membership by many.

Re what I’d like to see happen. I do think some sort loyalty reward could be shown if we‘re in lockdown for a sustained period. a month without is fine. But I’d imagine most people suffer winter golf to enjoy the summer and clubs know this. If a full season 4 months or so is missed Then some of the above suggestions would work. My friends club are putting the subs paid during a halt onto everyone’s cards next season. I like that idea. It encourages spend at the club and people to Stay. It also keeps cash flowing now and won’t cost the club as much to repay as stock is obviously still marked up when sold.

 

[Robster59]

I'm fortunate to be in a position that I can continue to pay my subs. Ours is a members club and as such relies on the subs to keep going. Whilst there is income from the bar and visitors, being on the West Coast of Scotland our visitor income isn't as high as clubs on the East Coast where most overseas visitors tend to go so it mainly relies on income from members contributions to continue.
Years ago, the club put in measures to carefully manage funds and formed a management committee so all the work wasn't put on the Captain.

During this crisis, they have put measures in place. Most of the staff have been furloughed in line with the governments job retention scheme, although they have retained two greenstaff to attend to essential security and maintenance work. They have submitted an application for the grant available to businesses in the retail, leisure and hospitality sectors. In Scotland this is being handled by the local authorities. We are a Members’ Club, run by the Members for the Members. The important point of this statement is that we are not a commercial, profit-making operation such as David Lloyd or other such gyms, and every penny of our income is invested in our Club.

Unlike some on here, I do have a strong tie with my club. I chose it out of a number of clubs when I first moved into the area, have made some wonderful friends and really feel at home here. I WANT this club to be here when I get back. I know there are other clubs in the area but, for me, they would alway be second best.

If I want the club to still be here when I get back then I would not be true to myself if I did not continue my subs to keep the club going. The course still needs to be maintained, rates have to be paid, bills have to be paid. Most of the people busting their guts in the club to keep this going are unpaid volunteers. Very good at what they do but they are giving their time and effort for the club. I have no doubt there are a number of members of our club will resign as they look at "bangs for their buck" but I'm trying to take a broader view than that.

Not everyone will agree with this. This is purely my personal viewpoint but for me, this is MY CLUB and so as part of that, I want to help.

 

[patricks148]

Can I ask why you feel that way? I'm genuinely interested.

Clubs will still be paying wages to greens staff, paying fuel for the course maintenance, paying for feed and fertilizers etc. They'll also still be paying insurance premiums, bills, rates etc etc. It's not as if the club has suddenly incurred no running costs during this period.

Again I appreciate you're entitled to your view and you may think I'm wrong but for me this years fees are still contributing to the running of the club and the management of my club until such times as its deemed fit to resume golfing. Unprecedented times these for golf courses and by discounting next year they could be making a rod for their own backs.

i think many confuse a golf club memberships with other memberships like Gyms etc. maintaining a golf course is a 12 months a year thing, not just ground rent and some equip. just because it is closed doesn't mean its not costing to run still. every one wants there cake and eat it these days

 

[Reemul]

My club has said they will extend my membership by the length of time the course is closed. They have sent me vouchers as well, 2 free rounds for guests, 5 hours free on the simulator as well as some food and drink goodies for when the club re opens. If I renew they will also put a free £100 on my card.

I will be renewing, really impressed with what they are doing

 

[Depreston]

chester le street

"
Direct Debit Payments
We have received a couple of queries about the possibility of cancelling Fairway Credit payments. I’m afraid that in fairness to our entire membership, we cannot sanction this.
Please remember that direct debit payments are merely a way of spreading the annual subscription. You remain liable for the full debt.
Most of our members have paid up front in December or January, indeed, some members have paid many years in advance. If you fail to honour the agreement it will be not only be frowned upon by other members, as well as all clubs in the County, but it will lead to an unfavourable credit rating for you.
You should also be aware that your Credit Broker (Premium Credit in this instance) may seek to recover your liability directly from you.
These funds are vital to meet the on-going costs of running the golf club, even more so when other sources of income have been temporarily terminated.
It is now that we need the support of all members.
If you are experiencing hardship due to the current position, please let us know and we will, alongside your Credit Broker, do all we can to try to help.

Deferrals
We have always had a generous subscription deferral process. This is for people who cannot play due to illness or injury, have a medical certificate, and is for a minimum of 3 months’ duration. It is not available in the second half of the year.
This is not appropriate at this point in time, and with immediate effect we are withdrawing this option.
Events are moving at a rapid pace and we should hope that it will be possible to lift the sanctions quite soon when we will all be able to get back to playing golf.
Indeed, England Golf are currently in discussion with Government regarding the status of golf as an allowable exercise, following social distancing guidelines

"

think that is a s***e statement to put out imo

 

[Deleted member 16999]

chester le street

"
Direct Debit Payments
We have received a couple of queries about the possibility of cancelling Fairway Credit payments. I’m afraid that in fairness to our entire membership, we cannot sanction this.
Please remember that direct debit payments are merely a way of spreading the annual subscription. You remain liable for the full debt.
Most of our members have paid up front in December or January, indeed, some members have paid many years in advance. If you fail to honour the agreement it will be not only be frowned upon by other members, as well as all clubs in the County, but it will lead to an unfavourable credit rating for you.
You should also be aware that your Credit Broker (Premium Credit in this instance) may seek to recover your liability directly from you.
These funds are vital to meet the on-going costs of running the golf club, even more so when other sources of income have been temporarily terminated.
It is now that we need the support of all members.
If you are experiencing hardship due to the current position, please let us know and we will, alongside your Credit Broker, do all we can to try to help.

Deferrals
We have always had a generous subscription deferral process. This is for people who cannot play due to illness or injury, have a medical certificate, and is for a minimum of 3 months’ duration. It is not available in the second half of the year.
This is not appropriate at this point in time, and with immediate effect we are withdrawing this option.
Events are moving at a rapid pace and we should hope that it will be possible to lift the sanctions quite soon when we will all be able to get back to playing golf.
Indeed, England Golf are currently in discussion with Government regarding the status of golf as an allowable exercise, following social distancing guidelines

"

think that is a s***e statement to put out imo

That’s a veiled threat! Poor response!

 

[CallawayKid]

If we pay in full before 7th April we'll get 2 months returned to us, if it goes on any longer then it will be reviewed. Very fair for a members club I think.

CK

 

[duncan mackie]

Whilst it's hard not to be impressed by the actions of some clubs (post above) it's equally hard not to appreciate the key issue for many - which at the moment will be 'what, and for how long?' but will also increasingly include 'what is the likely longer term impact on the club/ business?'.
The smaller the course membership part is of an overall business the easier it is to make blanket offers (hotel chain courses) whilst at the opposite end of the spectrum a members club may be considering short term survival.

We are 3 days into an unknown future....i seriously don't expect anything meaningful or definitive at this point!

 

[duncan mackie]

That’s a veiled threat! Poor response!

Don't understand the veiled threat bit? They are highlighting the realities of fairway credit in response to a high level of enquires from people who clearly don't understand it.

 

[jim8flog]

One of the things I look back on when it comes to supporting my club over and above the annual membership fee is what members (like myself) have done for the club.

Things I have helped to pay for

An additional 9 hole course
An extension to the clubhouse for a dining / function room
New Office (twice)
New pro shop (twice)
Driving range
Locker room refurbishment
Lounge refurbishment

If it were not for people doing this throughout our whole 100+ year history the club house which was originally nothing more than a wooden shed would have fallen to the ground years ago and the Pro would still be selling goods from a wooden hut which he was doing when I first joined the club.

 

[IanM]

Chester le Street wording isn't great.... and I wonder why they think we'll be back playing "quite soon?" (what is quite soon anyway?)

I think the overall issue in this whole thread is our loyalty to our clubs and our ability to support them now and after this mess... that will depend on the type of club it is how long you've been there and your affinity with it. You may have lots , or none! Neither is right, but a personal choice or function of circumstances.

Personally, I will be not expecting any cash back from my club, I wouldn't want to jeopardise it's existence....and I will be seeing how I can help the Pro and Steward regenerate their businesses after all this by buying stuff and eating stuff!!

I've never used Fairway Credit, but I assume the payments are a separate credit agreement with the credit provider and legally disconnected from any provision of golf services from the club. (hence they are pointing it out to those who don't understand that) ....users of it will confirm or correct me!

 

[Matty6]

At our place renewals are normally due by 1st April. A lot of members renewed back in February. For existing members that haven’t renewed yet, they get an additional month before they have to commit. Nothing is being offered for people who have already renewed.

Personally, that doesn’t bother me. I’ll just be happy if the club comes through this unscathed!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Don't understand the veiled threat bit? They are highlighting the realities of fairway credit in response to a high level of enquires from people who clearly don't understand it.

By intimating that it will be frowned upon by fellow members and all other Clubs in the County! To me that is possibly cultivating a them and us mentality both inside and outside the membership.
Plus possibly frightening some with the credit rating comment.
Surely this should of been kept in house by them, I’m in the same County and hope our Club and members do right by us and not how it looks to other Clubs.

 

[GB72]

By intimating that it will be frowned upon by fellow members and all other Clubs in the County! To me that is possibly cultivating a them and us mentality both inside and outside the membership.
Plus possibly frightening some with the credit rating comment.
Surely this should of been kept in house by them, I’m in the same County and hope our Club and members do right by us and not how it looks to other Clubs.

I read the 'and all other clubs in the county' as a veiled threat to name and shame those that did not pay up. If so, that is very wrong.

The comments about the credit are fair though. Fairway credit normally pay the club in full on day one and the member has an agreement with them to repay. As such, and as with any such agreement, it is not tied to the club's provision of a service and remains payable irrespective.

As I mentioned earlier, it is the middle ground that the club will have to keep on side. The die hard golfers will sign up, those who are not as fussed about golf may leave. Those in the middle are the ones that any offer may help sway a decision. I may have been more tempted to stay as a member if, for example, they did not insist on committing to a full year (I would have paid for a couple of months to see how things panned out for me and for the situation in general) and if there were some assurances of not having a massive fee increase next year.

 

[patricks148]

Don't understand the veiled threat bit? They are highlighting the realities of fairway credit in response to a high level of enquires from people who clearly don't understand it.

spot on just had something similar from the kings, i think many just don't understand the credit agreement for monthly isn't with the club but a 3rd party.. credit company... they are a bit like the sceen from goodfellows.... FU you pay me.. though they have given the option to play half now half July for those not already paid.

paid it earlier in the week in full myself and Nairn in December

 

[Lord Tyrion]

By intimating that it will be frowned upon by fellow members and all other Clubs in the County! To me that is possibly cultivating a them and us mentality both inside and outside the membership.
Plus possibly frightening some with the credit rating comment.
Surely this should of been kept in house by them, I’m in the same County and hope our Club and members do right by us and not how it looks to other Clubs.

There are ways of getting a message across and this is not a good one. My club sent a 'we are all in this together, keep paying your fees, we will be back playing soon' type of message that was upbeat and non threatening. It got the point across but not in an aggressive way. I think they got the tone right, CLS did not.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

spot on just had something similar from the kings, i think many just don't understand the credit agreement for monthly isn't with the club but a 3rd party.. credit company... they are a bit like the sceen from goodfellows.... FU you pay me.. though they have given the option to play half now half July for those not already paid.

paid it earlier in the week in full myself and Nairn in December

I perfectly understand how the credit company works, maybe ask me to clarify were I’m coming from rather put your words in my mouth.

The email also covers referrals, that is Club business, nothing to do with the credit company and just like I responded to Duncan, what has it got to do with other Clubs in the County.