I Know it is Tradition but it is Still Annoying

[USER1999]

We have/had a similar rule re: 21 h/cap for full membership. Ditto for captains tee privilege, and parking space. Can't really see what the problem is. Without some traditions (or oddities) I might as well join a pay and play built yesterday. It's a question of character.

We have had one captain in the ten years I have been a member who used his right on the tee. He was, and remains, a complete knob.

 

[Dodger]

I had a rule book and it wasn't in it but no one ever got 7 day membership unless they were sub 21 handicap.

Thats as close to an unwritten rule that I could see


Chris

Then they were clearly breaking the constitution of the club then surely not to mention a possible discrimination subject?

Clubs need to be really looking at their constitutions closely at the moment as some of them are in breach of legality and parts of the constitutions can effect them if applying for funding/grants etc etc.

As I have said previously,some clubs need to get into this century and if they do the game will be all the better for it.

 

[Oddsocks]

well reading page 7-12 was a way of passing time and educational.

 

[GB72]

Never heard of not letting higher handicappers join as full members is a new one on me. That said, when I was looking to move to a new area a couple of years ago a club did say that I could join the waiting list for full membership or could jump the queue if I had ever played county level and join straight up.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Treat people how you want Blade but, for me, that quote is a very sad indictment of the direction this country seems to be going.

You probably detect that I am right behind Hobbit with his views but I didn't want to come out and say it as I am trying to earn the respect of forum members - how long will it take I wonder??


Chris

My club is certainly a traditional members club in the South East of the country but is not a "Wentworth". The members are, by and large, ordinary working people, builders , plumbers small business owners through to doctors, accountants etc. The club atmosphere is good and most of the guys I see on a Sunday morning are the ex footballers I used to kick lumps out of 35 years ago.

The members do like to have a dress code and are generally happy with observing traditions but when they want things changed they do raise concerns, often at an AGM but otherwise through the committee. Your stereotyping of clubs down south is way off the mark but if the points that Thecraw made in a few posts ago means that his place is a modern forward thinking club I am happy to be considered an old Major General stuffed shirt - and I promise you I am not!!


Chris

Very, very good thread this one and I've enjoyed reading the varying views. A couple of points for me. I actually agree with Bladeplayer. In my book if you want me to respect you it has to be earned in deed or manner. I'll try and treat everyone fairly, especially strangers I've never met, but for arguments sake, show a disregard to golf etiquette for example by not repairing pitch marks and you can be the captain of any number of clubs but I won't respct you.

My club is a private members club down south too and the 19th is one of the friendliest I know. We have all walks of life in there and all pretentions are left at the door. Come in, have a chat, a laugh and a beer. Respect the dress code, keep the language down a tad for the juniors and enjoy yourself

 

[chrisd]

Then they were clearly breaking the constitution of the club then surely not to mention a possible discrimination subject?

Clubs need to be really looking at their constitutions closely at the moment as some of them are in breach of legality and parts of the constitutions can effect them if applying for funding/grants etc etc.

As I have said previously,some clubs need to get into this century and if they do the game will be all the better for it.

This was before equality, and was when there was a fair waiting list for 7 day membership. You have to remember that all the 7 day members were under 21 when they joined so no one was going to get shirty over it. Also, if there were say, 20 x 7 day memberships available at the year end then not only would you have to be sub 21 but the lowest handicaps got in no matter how long everyone had been on the list. It didn't matter if your handicap went up over 21 at all.

This hasn't been the case for about 7 years now and would never be allowed now anyway, but when I started playing golf I had to join another club further away until I got down to 16, and then applied to join. Players over 21 h/cap would almost certainly be offered 5 day membership



Chris

 

[USER1999]

Cat 1s still get in straight away, no five day membership, etc.

 

[sweatysock41]

We're not fussy at our place - anybody can join straight away as long as they stump up the cash. The joys of being at a proprietory course.

I think though that the balance is just about right - we do allow jeans in the clubhouse etc but the captain does have privelege on the course - although as I said earlier none of them seem to take advantage of this.

 

[chrisd]

We're not fussy at our place - anybody can join straight away as long as they stump up the cash.

Smiffy, Smiffy you there!


Chris

 

[Dodger]

This was before equality, and was when there was a fair waiting list for 7 day membership. You have to remember that all the 7 day members were under 21 when they joined so no one was going to get shirty over it. Also, if there were say, 20 x 7 day memberships available at the year end then not only would you have to be sub 21 but the lowest handicaps got in no matter how long everyone had been on the list. It didn't matter if your handicap went up over 21 at all.

This hasn't been the case for about 7 years now and would never be allowed now anyway, but when I started playing golf I had to join another club further away until I got down to 16, and then applied to join. Players over 21 h/cap would almost certainly be offered 5 day membership



Chris

It may have been before equality but I am still struggling to understand how they got around it considering it was clearly a totally made up ruling outwith a constitution......21 handicap??Why this figure?Was that plucked out from the sky also?

If aliens came down and read some of the pish rulings that are/were connected with golf clubs they would jump back on that ship sharpish I reckon.

Oh look,new smiley.......a bit of progress in golf!

 

[SocketRocket]

Give me a traditional members club that maintains good standards of dress and behaviour. Although there may be rules most golfers dont need disciplining, they are happy to maintain these standards for the enjoyment of the vast majority.

I have played at clubs where people shout and scream at each other on the course, where they drop fag packets and empty beer tins, where they dress in any pirate rig that suits them both on the course and in the clubhouse, where they hack the ball around and holler like baboons when it flys onto another fairway.

If people want to spend their leasure time in this type of environment then join a club that allows it, for me I prefer to spend my time amongst people with good manners and standards, I pay a lot for my membership but find it worthwhile due to the fact that I am a member of a club that maintains the type of standards I prefer.

The members are not elete, they are from all types of trades and proffessions and are a very friendly crowd indeed. I expect some personal insults over this post but I am just as entitled to my views on the subject as anyone and will state and defend them.

Puts on flameproof suit and stands braced.

 

[chrisd]

It may have been before equality but I am still struggling to understand how they got around it considering it was clearly a totally made up ruling outwith a constitution......21 handicap??Why this figure?Was that plucked out from the sky also?

If aliens came down and read some of the pish rulings that are/were connected with golf clubs they would jump back on that ship sharpish I reckon.

Oh look,new smiley.......a bit of progress in golf!

It came about as far as I know because the members over many years didn't want beginners to ruin their weekend golf so they set a handicap that would mean that any new members could play to a certain standard. They ran the club and to some extent did what they wanted. I dont find it a suprise that a completely full club could get away with whatever they wanted to do. There was no constitution, there was a rule book, but this was an unofficial, arbitary "rule" done to enhance the weekend golfers pleasure - who was going to complain?

When things changed and we started needing more members to fill the "dead mans boots" the 21 handicap became 25 (I think) and then eventually abolished altogether. The problem also was that many members paid their subs year on year but many hardly ever played, but, as the fees continued to rise, the older ones began to baulk at renewing,leaving the club to find 50 - 60 new members a year from the previous 25 or so who were always recruited from the waiting list.

When I joined, about 14 years ago I had to pay a joining fee of about £600 and a sub of about £400, I wasn't elected until Xmas but I still had to pay the full year from September.


Everything has changed now and people are treated properly and fairly and if the recession and equality is good, I guess, this is one example - there are still many who would hanker after the old days I would guess if the clock could be turned back


Chris

 

[Smiffy]

Give me a traditional members club that maintains good standards of dress and behaviour. Although there may be rules most golfers dont need disciplining, they are happy to maintain these standards for the enjoyment of the vast majority.

I have played at clubs where people shout and scream at each other on the course, where they drop fag packets and empty beer tins, where they dress in any pirate rig that suits them both on the course and in the clubhouse, where they hack the ball around and holler like baboons when it flys onto another fairway.

If people want to spend their leasure time in this type of environment then join a club that allows it, for me I prefer to spend my time amongst people with good manners and standards, I pay a lot for my membership but find it worthwhile due to the fact that I am a member of a club that maintains the type of standards I prefer.

The members are not elete, they are from all types of trades and proffessions and are a very friendly crowd indeed. I expect some personal insults over this post but I am just as entitled to my views on the subject as anyone and will state and defend them.

Here, here.

 

[chrisd]

Here, here.

Me too Smiffy


Got it in one Socket, for me, the difinitive summing up of the thread

I am worried about you Smiffy though - posting your reply at 4.39am!!!



Chris

 

[Smiffy]

I am worried about you Smiffy though - posting your reply at 4.39am!!!



Chris

Paper round

 

[USER1999]

Loo paper?

 

[bladeplayer]

Give me a traditional members club that maintains good standards of dress and behaviour. Although there may be rules most golfers dont need disciplining, they are happy to maintain these standards for the enjoyment of the vast majority.

I have played at clubs where people shout and scream at each other on the course, where they drop fag packets and empty beer tins, where they dress in any pirate rig that suits them both on the course and in the clubhouse, where they hack the ball around and holler like baboons when it flys onto another fairway.

If people want to spend their leasure time in this type of environment then join a club that allows it, for me I prefer to spend my time amongst people with good manners and standards, I pay a lot for my membership but find it worthwhile due to the fact that I am a member of a club that maintains the type of standards I prefer.

The members are not elete, they are from all types of trades and proffessions and are a very friendly crowd indeed. I expect some personal insults over this post but I am just as entitled to my views on the subject as anyone and will state and defend them.

Puts on flameproof suit and stands braced.

Surprised you would expect personal insults ? as for your views, yes sir you surely are entiled to air your view on the subject, thats what makes this a great forum , i have read your post a couple of times & i still dont know how it relates to the OP tho .. our club has the good standard of dress & behaviour, members dont need diciplining , we dont throw beeer cans etc around the place , the membership is made up of a massive cross section of society who all behave & are friendly , very relaxed & easy going in the clubhouse but neat dress is required etc , i dont know how the refrence to people shouting , droping beer cans etc relates in any way to the captain insisting he plays 1st tho ? you will find everything you say you like in our club & id say in most clubs that the forumers are part of , captain wont barge past you tho .. i apologise but i am slightly puzzled by the post & it relevence .. smiffy & chris obviously got it , im sorry but i dont , can you please tell me how it relates to the OP ? thanks

 

[Snelly]

Thanks for this thread all. Quite an interesting read.

Erudite posts full of common sense from Hobbit, Socket Rocket and surprisingly admirable stance from Chris. Totally agree with Murph too.

Craw and Dodger's interjections are pretty typical and further evidence that both have a massive chip on their shoulder relating to most things English but specifically, golf clubs of a certain standing in the south of England, their members, rules and traditions. Furthermore, any chance to belittle or criticise them is siezed upon faster than a dropped fiver on a Glasgow pavement! It is obvious that this is the case and equally apparent that there is no compromise or consensus with the likes of me. We are opposite ends of arguments like this so not much point arguing the toss as an agreement is impossible.


That said and for what it is worth, my own twopenneth is that if I was on the 1st tee at a club and the Captain arrived, I would offer him the courtesy of the first tee straight away. This is surely the right thing to do - it is just good manners.

I would not mind if the Captain accepted or declined the offer either. They are the Captain and they have certain perks.

That said, if they demanded to come through in an ungentlemenly fashion, I would have a quiet word with them in the bar afterwards about the level of courtesy they used when taking up their 1st tee perk.


PS - Jeans at a golf club are just wrong.

PPS - You should take your hat off in the clubhouse.

 

[Dodger]

Thanks for this thread all. Quite an interesting read.

Erudite posts full of common sense from Hobbit, Socket Rocket and surprisingly admirable stance from Chris. Totally agree with Murph too.

Craw and Dodger's interjections are pretty typical and further evidence that both have a massive chip on their shoulder relating to most things English but specifically, golf clubs of a certain standing in the south of England, their members, rules and traditions. Furthermore, any chance to belittle or criticise them is siezed upon faster than a dropped fiver on a Glasgow pavement! It is obvious that this is the case and equally apparent that there is no compromise or consensus with the likes of me. We are opposite ends of arguments like this so not much point arguing the toss as an agreement is impossible.


That said and for what it is worth, my own twopenneth is that if I was on the 1st tee at a club and the Captain arrived, I would offer him the courtesy of the first tee straight away. This is surely the right thing to do - it is just good manners.

I would not mind if the Captain accepted or declined the offer either. They are the Captain and they have certain perks.

That said, if they demanded to come through in an ungentlemenly fashion, I would have a quiet word with them in the bar afterwards about the level of courtesy they used when taking up their 1st tee perk.


PS - Jeans at a golf club are just wrong.

PPS - You should take your hat off in the clubhouse.

Snelly, you really do not know me or what you are talking about regarding me at all.

I can't and won't comment on behalf of The Craw but what you have posted about be is just plain and utter pish.

Plenty on here will know where my views come from and what I am currently doing to drag a club/clubs into this century and my views are supported by people within a governing body of golf no less.

Next.

 

[thecraw]

Thanks for this thread all. Quite an interesting read.

Erudite posts full of common sense from Hobbit, Socket Rocket and surprisingly admirable stance from Chris. Totally agree with Murph too.

Craw and Dodger's interjections are pretty typical and further evidence that both have a massive chip on their shoulder relating to most things English but specifically, golf clubs of a certain standing in the south of England, their members, rules and traditions. Furthermore, any chance to belittle or criticise them is siezed upon faster than a dropped fiver on a Glasgow pavement! It is obvious that this is the case and equally apparent that there is no compromise or consensus with the likes of me. We are opposite ends of arguments like this so not much point arguing the toss as an agreement is impossible.


That said and for what it is worth, my own twopenneth is that if I was on the 1st tee at a club and the Captain arrived, I would offer him the courtesy of the first tee straight away. This is surely the right thing to do - it is just good manners.

I would not mind if the Captain accepted or declined the offer either. They are the Captain and they have certain perks.

That said, if they demanded to come through in an ungentlemenly fashion, I would have a quiet word with them in the bar afterwards about the level of courtesy they used when taking up their 1st tee perk.


PS - Jeans at a golf club are just wrong.

PPS - You should take your hat off in the clubhouse.

Snelly thanks for the racist slur, I'd advise you edit your post. Where have I once slated a course or made crud racist slurs on any English course. As for your stereotypical suggestion of a tight Scotsman or Glaswegian in your instance I think that sums up your intelligence.