I Know it is Tradition but it is Still Annoying

[thecraw]

I just wonder whether the place will feel the same when the members start wearing a string vest, cargo shorts halfway down the calf, bellowing down the mobile phone and swilling pints of larger on the tee - and god knows what the male members will be like!


Chris

Certainly a lot more entertaining than the old chap network.

 

[chrisd]

Personally Craw I could not think of anything worse than being a member of a club like that where these crusty outdated traditions are upheld and thankfully I am not.I am all for upholding traditions of the game but not ridiculous,outdated ones that have been around since Major Farquarson and his pink gin brigade were in charge.

I think that down south there are many clubs that still lean toward the old school style attitude and that is their choice but in my opinion,as in yours,golf needs to in general drag itself into the next century and rid itself of the things that see it continue to be perceived as an elitist sport played by stuffy old men.

Thankfully this attitude is less prevalent up here.

I have often wondered what I would do if I were offered a job in such an establishment though......I really do not think I could or if I did I don't think I could last longer than a month!

My club is certainly a traditional members club in the South East of the country but is not a "Wentworth". The members are, by and large, ordinary working people, builders , plumbers small business owners through to doctors, accountants etc. The club atmosphere is good and most of the guys I see on a Sunday morning are the ex footballers I used to kick lumps out of 35 years ago.

The members do like to have a dress code and are generally happy with observing traditions but when they want things changed they do raise concerns, often at an AGM but otherwise through the committee. Your stereotyping of clubs down south is way off the mark but if the points that Thecraw made in a few posts ago means that his place is a modern forward thinking club I am happy to be considered an old Major General stuffed shirt - and I promise you I am not!!


Chris

 

[thecraw]

My club is certainly a traditional members club in the South East of the country but is not a "Wentworth". The members are, by and large, ordinary working people, builders , plumbers small business owners through to doctors, accountants etc. The club atmosphere is good and most of the guys I see on a Sunday morning are the ex footballers I used to kick lumps out of 35 years ago.

The members do like to have a dress code and are generally happy with observing traditions but when they want things changed they do raise concerns, often at an AGM but otherwise through the committee. Your stereotyping of clubs down south is way off the mark but if the points that Thecraw made in a few posts ago means that his place is a modern forward thinking club I am happy to be considered an old Major General stuffed shirt - and I promise you I am not!!


Chris

So are denim jeans beneath you?

 

[chrisd]

So are denim jeans beneath you?

Not when I go to support the might Crystal Palace but certainly wouldn't wear them at the golf club, but at least I know that I could wear my golf gear at any golf club in the country and you couldn't!


Chris

 

[Dodger]

My club is certainly a traditional members club in the South East of the country but is not a "Wentworth". The members are, by and large, ordinary working people, builders , plumbers small business owners through to doctors, accountants etc. The club atmosphere is good and most of the guys I see on a Sunday morning are the ex footballers I used to kick lumps out of 35 years ago.

The members do like to have a dress code and are generally happy with observing traditions but when they want things changed they do raise concerns, often at an AGM but otherwise through the committee. Your stereotyping of clubs down south is way off the mark but if the points that Thecraw made in a few posts ago means that his place is a modern forward thinking club I am happy to be considered an old Major General stuffed shirt - and I promise you I am not!!


Chris

Who stereotyped? All I said was that there are many more down south that lean toward the old school.......do you really think that is wide of the mark?!

 

[thecraw]

Not when I go to support the might Crystal Palace but certainly wouldn't wear them at the golf club, but at least I know that I could wear my golf gear at any golf club in the country and you couldn't!


Chris

Oh, my dear old boy. Please read what I wrote again. Jeans are accepted in the clubhouse. Guess what has happened as a result. Bar takings are up 17% as a result of members going to the club to watch football golf etc instead of their local pub. Families are using facilities more now due to Mrs and weans being able to come up for meals without having to change into slacks or frocks.

To date I have never worn jeans on a golf course even at Millport or Machrihannish where its acceptable.

More and more clubs are relaxing dress codes up here in the untamed kilt wearing uneducated bagpipe playing Scotland. Still we did at least invent the game, so its understandable that we see fit to relax traditions first.

 

[USER1999]

What are jeans?

I don't own a pair, what ever they are.

 

[chrisd]

Who stereotyped? All I said was that there are many more down south that lean toward the old school.......do you really think that is wide of the mark?!

I do think that it is wide of the mark. Clubs are moving with the times and dress codes are relaxing and various other things are too as attracting new members becomes more urgent.

An example of this, 10 years ago my club wouldn't look at anyone over 21 handicap joining on a 7 day membership, that has had to be a rule that was abolished.

All golf is changing and it did need to

Chris

 

[chrisd]

Oh, my dear old boy. Please read what I wrote again. Jeans are accepted in the clubhouse. Guess what has happened as a result. Bar takings are up 17% as a result of members going to the club to watch football golf etc instead of their local pub. Families are using facilities more now due to Mrs and weans being able to come up for meals without having to change into slacks or frocks.

To date I have never worn jeans on a golf course even at Millport or Machrihannish where its acceptable.

More and more clubs are relaxing dress codes up here in the untamed kilt wearing uneducated bagpipe playing Scotland. Still we did at least invent the game, so its understandable that we see fit to relax traditions first.

I did read what you wrote young man - I didn't infer that you play in jeans!

I am sure that a relaxation of the dress code in our clubhouse would also improve the takings and I personally, although stricken in years, have suggested that a relaxation is the way forward and I believe that the rule governing the wearing of white gloves and cravats in the dining suite after 12 o clock could be given some consideration.

We are also grateful that you kindly invented the game and take some pleasure in the fact that we are still playing your invention in the balmy teeshirt weather down south while you chilly jocko's are being rained off most weekends

Chris

 

[Dodger]

I do think that it is wide of the mark. Clubs are moving with the times and dress codes are relaxing and various other things are too as attracting new members becomes more urgent.

An example of this, 10 years ago my club wouldn't look at anyone over 21 handicap joining on a 7 day membership, that has had to be a rule that was abolished.

All golf is changing and it did need to

Chris

Good on them,another ridiculous ruling that has been consigned to history,whatever next...?Captains have to play when it is their time?

By jove,it appears things are moving into the next century at last down your way....long may it continue.

It is however still my opinion that clubs oop north are more in tune with the modern era than many down south especially around certain sites surrounding the capital.

 

[brendy]

An example of this, 10 years ago my club wouldn't look at anyone over 21 handicap joining on a 7 day membership, that has had to be a rule that was abolished.

All golf is changing and it did need to

Chris

Sorry Chris , I just half choked on my lukewarm coffee there. We have some stuffy clubs over here but none that were that bad.
Our club also went down the blue denim route last year with a fairly unanimous vote at the AGM, those that voted against it were all in the later stages of their lives and were carpark golfers. They never hung about for the rugby/footy/golf on the bigscreen in the mens bar, turn up to watch the teams and then complain about their social levy.
When were they ever in the place to see these rascals in their smart denim? A couple of guys did a pretty comprehensive survey of other local clubs and those that allowed denim all with the exception of one were turning over an extra 10-30% in profits. The veterans could still wear their polyester breeks and moth eaten club jumpers sipping their half pints, imagine if 70's golfwear and similar attire was to be outlawed...
Change isnt so bad if it gets a chance to go to the vote, majority rules and all that.

On the subject of Captains though, if there weren't so many perks (Free drink, free golf at other clubs, fancy blazer etc etc), would they all still jump at the chance? I doubt it and guess this is why most club secretaries, handicap secretaries, golf conveners etc remain in their positions for years, noone else is chomping at the bit to get in on a piece of the non glitzy aspect.

Dont get me wrong though, If someone wants to be Captain and gets voted in by committee or whatever then fine, there is a fairly large time demand placed on them with events, competitions, charity work etc. Generally (yes generalisation) most captains are usually either retired or have that time to spend.
On the first tee I wouldnt hesitate in offering his fourball out in front of ours if they happened to be in a large group of guys waiting to go out.
I wouldnt like to see the reception they would get if they came onto the teebox in a rush demanding to get away, I think they would be shown to the 10th teebox by a good few members.

 

[richart]

Read this thread with interest, as I think our club has the tradition that the Captain can tee off when he likes. In my four years at the club I have never seen it happen, and I have played regularily with all the captains in competitions and our roll ups. It might be a tradition but it doesn't mean it has to be used. I know we have had plenty of banter on the first tee with our captains about trying to use the tradition, and what would happen to them.

Our current captain is on his second time round because nobody wanted to do the job. Our captain in our centenary year in 2013 was also captain in 2009. I take my hat off to them for being prepared to put in the time and effort for the benefit of the club. They also raise a huge amount for charity, and if they get a years free membership and play some nice courses for free, good luck to them.

Our current captain came down to support the Golf Monthly Forum Meet, stayed for the meal, gave out the prizes, and generally made everyone welcome. Easy to knock people for their efforts, but I am sure that if anyone did the job themselves they might change their opinion.

 

[Hobbit]

Well actually it is my right to ignore that traditon and as you point out its my right to challenge it!

This is where your stuck in your ways, you seem to think tradition means its correct and has to be done that way as its the way its always been done. Codswallop.

Look at Turnberry these days. I can play my golf, walk into the clubhouse in my spikes, waterproofs still on, hat on my head, wander upstairs and sit and have a meal without even changing! 20 years ago, possibly even 10 years ago you'd have been banned for life for such behaviour!

What's your opinion on women now having equal rights, paying equal fees? Lets face it, tradition has it that golf is a man's game, clubs were run by men for the men, women were an after thought where they could play when the men dictated.

Glad you outed yourself as an ex-captain although I'd already used my detective skills to figure that out. Sadly its people like you that are keeping golf in the dark ages. Golf has to be dragged into the modern era, some clubs are better than others in adapting and recognising this, ie Turnberry. Thankfully I'm a member of a forward thinking club. Guess what, I can now wear a pair of denim jeans in the clubhouse if I so choose while having a pint and watching Sky TV. You enjoy your smoking jacket and tie, port and brandy and hold onto your traditions like crawling up the captains backside. Its outdated and pathetic.

Priority on the first tee. LOL!

Craw old boy, you seem to have misunderstood the point I was making, and made several times. I respect the rules and traditions but recognise that its up to members what they want.

Do I agree with women in golf and equal rights? Having stood up at AGM's and argued for equal access for women donkey's years ago...and a few years back having a pop at the stuffed shirts at an AGM for their lack of support for the Lady Captain... Juniors in golf, having argued for junior access to the clubhouse, all comps and a lifting on the limit of 20 juniors in the club I guess I'm a bit more forward thinking than you make the assumption I am. Oh, and guess who goes into the club in jeans???

Like I said, you've missed my point.... by miles. I support the rules and traditions at the club until the members decide that they want to change them. Then I support the new rules and traditions - its called democracy. Maybe you need to remove the blinkers and actually read my previous posts again.

 

[chrisd]

its called democracy

and that my friends is the correct answer!



Chris

 

[chrisd]

Sorry Chris , I just half choked on my lukewarm coffee there. We have some stuffy clubs over here but none that were that bad.

In those days membership was full to overflowing and they could get away with it. I was on the committee that voted to do away with the (unwritten) rule


Chris

 

[Smiffy]

Just ordered my new suit for when I play Turnberry....

 

[richart]

Just ordered my new suit for when I play Turnberry....
View attachment 230

I see the right arm is already in your natural position.

 

[Dodger]

In those days membership was full to overflowing and they could get away with it. I was on the committee that voted to do away with the (unwritten) rule


Chris

Out of interest.....
How was it ever a rule if it was unwritten??

 

[Smiffy]

This was the Captain at Crowborough during Centenary celebrations in 1995.
We had relaxed our dress code for the week.
We were trendsetters....

 

[chrisd]

Out of interest.....
How was it ever a rule if it was unwritten??

I had a rule book and it wasn't in it but no one ever got 7 day membership unless they were sub 21 handicap.

Thats as close to an unwritten rule that I could see


Chris