I Know it is Tradition but it is Still Annoying

[Dodger]

I think that this was just down right rude.


It’s the circumstances that would annoy me. I’m all for tradition, but not to behave like that.

I play at Tain with the previous captain and I know he would never do this if people had been queuing for any length of time in the cold. One of the guys I play with at Nairn is vice Captain this year and Captain next and he even gave me his place one Saturday morning cos he knew it was my only game of the weekend. its this sort of thing which builts respect, not pushing in.

Patrick,when you say he 'gave you his space' do Captains actually have an actual set time allocated to them through their tenure??

I have played this game a long time and I have never,ever heard of anything like this,yes Captains are shown respect (most of them,if they command it) but they are just a punter like you or I when it comes to playing golf and should book/reserve their own bloody tee time not expect to hop on the tee any time they like.

 

[patricks148]

Patrick,when you say he 'gave you his space' do Captains actually have an actual set time allocated to them through their tenure??

I have played this game a long time and I have never,ever heard of anything like this,yes Captains are shown respect (most of them,if they command it) but they are just a punter like you or I when it comes to playing golf and should book/reserve their own bloody tee time not expect to hop on the tee any time they like.

no, it was one of our sort of roll ups where our group have a few times and i being fairly new would have expected to be left as i was last there and everyone was on the tee. He said "no you have my place, i can play all week"

I thought this was such a nice gesture, esp towards a new member.

 

[viscount17]

This thread goes to show how tradition and values have changed over the years. Ours is a traditional club and it's not that the Captain would march up and demand to take precedence on the tee. The players who were next to go would honour what has always been traditional, and invite the Captain to go next should he wish to do so. Some do and some don't take up the offer.

Many people here seem to have an inbuilt anti authority attitude but they forget what the Captain does for them during the year in office. Our current Captain is , to me, a prize ****** , but for the members he runs the Golf Committee, organises most of the mens matches, turns up at loads of functions and gives speeches at the drop of a hat. He runs a charity during the year and, this year, gave £5k + to the hospice. He represents the Club at all manner of events, ones we would all like to do to the most mundane ones. He gets involved with sorting out all manner of problems for the Club with players, suppliers, staff etc etc and loads more of other jobs.

What do they get for their trouble - at our place ... one years free subs (worth £1000) but they Captains job cost one Captain (he told me) about £3k during his year. The pleasure and the pain that goes with the job and the privilige on the tee if he cares to!

I wouldn't do the job if you picked me up in a gold limo on a Sunday!! and I especially wouldn't do it for people who would moan about an odd privilige that is traditional at most member clubs


Chris

interesting, but what are the rest of the committee doing?
ours chairs the committee, the secretary runs it
and its the secretary who sorts out day to day problems
competitions are organised and run by the competition and handicap secretaries
yes, he hosts the charity events, and represents the club at other functions, and I know it costs them to be captain.
fortunately ours is a good bloke, I don't know if we have that rule but I can't see him ever using it, though there are one or two others who certainly would.

 

[SocketRocket]

I guess what is different at my club is that we dont have tee times. We have slots in the day on which tees two or four balls can play from and it's first come first served. The Captain has priority on the first tee only, I have never seen him do this but if he requested it I would not see a problem in letting him through.

 

[Fyldewhite]

OK, a lot has been said on this thread but as a current club Captain I'd just like to add a few comments....

Firstly, I would never, ever, storm on to the tee expecting to be let through. A few years ago I was waiting to tee off for a knockout match at another local club and the Captain did just that saying "I'm the Captain, I can tee off when I like". Charming I thought, what a Tw*t.

Secondly, being the Captain of your club is probably the biggest honour most mere mortals who can never even hope to be great players can be given in golf. I know there are exceptions but the vast majority have worked tirelessly for their clubs for many years before being nominated. When we've had Captain's who aren't in that category then who's fault is that? not the guy who had the guts to stand not being a "club stalwart" that's for sure.

In addition, yes, most get some help with hospitality (I get £1800) but believe me most (including me!!) are not ahead cost wise by a large margin over the year. The role is to represent the club in the local area and we do that to the best of our ability I'm sure. In my area there are 8 clubs who are part of the "bigger club" but I can assure you there isn't one of us who hasn't a) been very honoured to be captain, b) Done an awful lot for our respective clubs and c) been considerably out of pocket for the privilege. It's a big responsibility and although very rewarding isn't really the notch on your CV that some imagine.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

The further point was not just the 10 minutes on the tee but the half an hour or so that it added to the round playing behind a mixed four ball that meant that two of our group could not finish the round

Which is exactly my point, tradition or not, it's just plain rude, thoughtless and arrogant and says a lot about the kind of person this captain is.

You have to remember that not every on will know who the captain is, I'll be honest and say I don't know who this years captain is at our place and I know several people who don't know the incoming captain. If our captain did this to me on the tee I'd think he was arrogant and would be complaining to the club know in no uncertain terms that captain or not, his attitude stinks and it would certainly put me off supporting captains Day and stuff like that

 

[RichardC]

It surprises me that you don't know who your current captain is.

Maybe it's just me.

Captain at our's is fantastic, and like Chrisd our's is very traditional in that sense. On a Sunday there is a start sheet and if anyone brings a guest along, then the Captain ALWAYS makes it his business to go over and introduce himself and welcome the guest to the club.

 

[Smiffy]

I played in an Open at Seaford Golf Club earlier this year. Great event and well organised. The Captain wasn't playing but was manning the half way hut with the lady captain and they made a point of coming out and welcoming everybody as they came off the 9th green, introducing themselves and asking whether we were enjoying the day and offering us drinks and nibbles. I thought it was a nice touch and was a good example of how captains promote their club.
If a club captain came up to me on the first tee and explained the situation in the correct manner I would have no hesitation in allowing him to tee off ahead of me.
If one barged in front of me "demanding" that he be allowed to play first, I would give him a well deserved gobfull of Smiffy abuse.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It's my first year Smiffy and I missed captains day due to work. I'm at the club a couple of times a week and never been introduced to him, maybe he's there at different times? I'm certainly no stranger to the club and know quite a few people but not met the skipper.

 

[chrisd]

So, the end result is, from what I can ascertain from the various postings is that almost everyone (me included) would not be happy for a Captain to march on the 1st tee and demand to be next group off, but I would still stand aside so long as no one in our group had hit his tee shot already. If he appeared on the tee at 8.15 at my club he would be invited to tee next - we dont have tee times unless it's a comp and then he would already have picked the time he wanted - that would be the protocol at our place and he may refuse the offer but may step in front of others if there were to be 4 or 5 groups waiting to go. Finally there are a few posters who, if the Captain walked to the tee would not stand aside come what may.

Pretty much what I would expect.

Chris

 

[need_my_wedge]

We have photo's of the club captain, vice captain, ladies captain, ladies vice captain and the club president on display in the entrance hall and again in the main hall. Even though I don't know any of them personally, I haven't so much as had a drink with any of them, to my surprise both last years and this years captain know me by name. They are always extremely polite, you get a wave if they see you on the course, a handshake if they are on an adjacent tee. I'll add our club president into this mix, where he and his wife stood on the first tee all day at this years Presidents day, introducing themselves to everyone that played on the day, asking questions about the club development that we have in progress and taking on board feedback. Whilst I'm sure that there are an equal number of unpleasant captains out there, I've only had experience of good ones thus far. As far as their one year tenure goes, if the club rule/ tradition says they get privilege on the tee, then they get privilege on the tee. If they choose to exercise that privilege, they are not doing anything wrong. Yes, there are good and bad ways of doing this, some may feel inconvenienced, but it is still a perk of their position bestowed by the club and as a club member I abide by the club rules/ tradition.

There was a thread on here the other day about doing what we like in matchplay. the general consensus was golf rules should be adhered to at all times and you should call a penalty on yourself if you fail to adhere to them. If the captain gets priority, I don't see why those same beliefs shouldn't apply in this case.

 

[Hobbit]

Wow!

As a past Capt at a club with the tradition of the him having a priviledge on the first tee I guess I better be careful what I say in the this thread.

Members who "created" the club bring in a number of traditions down the years. If a member doesn't like the rules or traditions of club he can always raise it at the AGM and ask the members to support his proposal for change. Until that happens I would expect members to respect the tradition of the club even if they disagree with it - no one should pick and choose what traditions they will follow if they signed up to be members. Change via an AGM and you'd have my respect, but sniping form the bar isn't the way to do it.

For a competition sheet the tradition doesn't apply. As Capt I never barged through but was invited through many, many times and only took up the offer once. I was in a club knockout and had priority anyway. The Capt has to respect the priviledge too, and not abuse it.

On the issue of does the Capt earn the right to go to the front of the queue, or to have his own car park space; that's for the members to decide. The members vote for who they want in office, and that office comes with the priviledges and responsiblities that the members have voted on down the years. If as a member you disagree with that tradition you have three choices, try and change it, accept it or go elsewhere.

Is being Capt hard work? That depends on how a particular club is structured. Personally, I was knackered by the end of my year - even after many years on committee I hadn't realised just how time consuming the position was and I fully appreciate how the general membership don't understand what is involved. And free golf at other clubs... I never got the chance, nor the time.

Inviting a Capt through to tee off costs you what? It costs you about 8 minutes. And you're not willing to give him 8 minutes of your time in recognition of his hardwork and his position within the club??? Says more about other people's selfishness really.

 

[bladeplayer]

Wow!



Inviting a Capt through to tee off costs you what? It costs you about 8 minutes. And you're not willing to give him 8 minutes of your time in recognition of his hardwork and his position within the club??? Says more about other people's selfishness really.

Well with my reply to the OP & a few others agreed with me , some of us have no issue with tradition of INVITING or LETING the captain play before us , we do or would have issues with the captain barging through & insisting on playing .. I agree we have the 3 options you mentioned but If enough people decided on option 3 of going elsewhere there wouldnt be much need for a captain would there ? you say "change via AGM & you will have my respect" , i say ask to play through & you will have mine .. you will be captain for one year , i could be a member for 1 to 50 years (not me il be dead by then ) Its very funny that you say the member will only loose what ? 8 mins ? likewise the captain would only loose 8 mins ? in recognition of his hard work ?. the lady in our office , the lady that runs our pro-shop looks after all the competition cards every weekend (no sign of captain at 6.30am in the summer), ok you will say the captain doesnt get paid , so how bout the club sec , comp sec , president & other hard working committe members? should i let all them play 1st.. Respect in the golf club like in life is earned , if it is attained by been voted into a position it doesnt carry any sway with me anyhow .. Im too old in the tooth & work too hard to get the bobs to pay my membership to respect anyone who hasnt earned it , Our captain has his name on the time sheet like everyone else , will walk over & join new members at the bar , will eat with ordinary members etc & is totaly respected & liked , if i asked him did he wish to play through he would say definatly not you play away & enjoy.. If i respect the tradition & let the captain through & therefor i miss my tee time, i am by the rules of golf disqualified .. does tradition or rules mater most in golf ?

 

[chrisd]

Respect in the golf club like in life is earned

My understanding was that everyone starts out being respected and can only, therefore, with their actions, lose it!



Chris

 

[thecraw]

Hobbit, Chrisd etc,

No one is saying that the captains don,t deserve credit for the job at their respective clubs. They do however volunteer and accept the role off their own backs. How much time and effort they dedicate is again at their own discretion, as is their application. Why do you think you get varying reports on good and bad captains?

Back on track jumping queues is a disgusting pig headed abuse of any pathetic constitution or local rule. As I say I wouldn't stand aside if it was at my home course, I would at another course however it would leave a very very bitter taste. If I had paid I'd go back and ask for a refund and leave explaining why! AGM, your dam right I'd be bringing it up.

As for selfish, we'll I'm not the ignorant sod jumping to the front. Just like with junior members, I don't demand to be let through them on the tee like a lot of ignorant senior members. I'll wait till they wave me through, why, because they're members and deserve to play like anyone else!

 

[bladeplayer]

My understanding was that everyone starts out being respected and can only, therefore, with their actions, lose it!



Chris

Not for me anyway Chris , id give people i dont know the benifit of the doubt & i definatly would not disrespect them , but to me respect is earned by your actions .. there is a difference between showing respect to someone & having respect for some one , showing respect is a reflection of you , earning respect is a reflection of them ..

 

[thecraw]

No names, no pack drill, but there are contributors to this thread who snipe from behind the barricades at those who give up their time to ensure that golf clubs continue to exist but disappear into the distance when it is suggested that they could help by volunteering their wisdom and experience.

I assume that was aimed at me. In response I'd like to point out that I served on committee for 3 years at a young age, 22-25 as Social and House. Would I do it again, would I help out my golf club if asked. No problem. Have all facts to hand before shooting from the hip.

Would I stand aside on the first tee even as a committee member. I think you know the answer!

 

[Dodger]

I assume that was aimed at me. In response I'd like to point out that I served on committee for 3 years at a young age, 22-25 as Social and House. Would I do it again, would I help out my golf club if asked. No problem. Have all facts to hand before shooting from the hip.

Would I stand aside on the first tee even as a committee member. I think you know the answer!

Ditto with spots on it,well said that man.

 

[Hobbit]

Bladeplayer, you talk about earning respect. Does the Captain's previous years of hard work not earn respect?
He's not a here today, gone tomorrow politician. He will almost certainly done years of service for the club, through choice and FOC, and he doesn't do it in the expectation of anything in return. He does it because he wants to, because he cares about the club AND by virtue of that the members too. As to your comment about if you let him through you'll be in breach of the rules of golf...... read all what I posted originally. A good Captain, IMO, won't barge through with, "sorry gents but its my right..." A good Captain will decline the offer and thank the member(s) for recognising the office and traditions of the club. Time is a precious commodity to everyone, and a Captain needs to understand that many members have commitments at home, or elsewhere, and not spoil a member's round before its even started.

Craw, I'd happily support your democratic right to raise it at an AGM, even if I disagreed with you but as to flouting the traditions of the club, demanding your money back and going elsewhere. In all honesty, I'd pay you to go if that's your attitude to rules and traditions. Follow due process, get the change through and I'd support the "new" rule without any problem at all.

How many times does anyone stop and hold a door open for the person following behind, and over 1 year how much time does that amount to? And you can't give 8 minutes to the club captain, someone who has given so much to you down the years? Sad, very sad...

 

[thecraw]

What right does a captain have to do this Hobbit? Answer me that???