How strict are you at enforcing the rules with your PP's ??

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Actually it’s everyone’s job to ensure that the rules are adhered to on the course - that’s both you and your playing partners - you can’t just turn a blind eye on people if they are breaking rules.

Agree 100% - even if I am 'OK' if a fellow competitor in my group minor infringes or miscounts - I have a duty of care to every other competitor - and not just those who might be in with a chance of 'winning'. All of our handicaps are determined by the scores of every other player.

 

[hovis]

in a competition I'd pull them on all instances. in a friendly game i wouldn't mutter a word. i cant care less what they do or score.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

in a competition I'd pull them on all instances. in a friendly game i wouldn't mutter a word. i cant care less what they do or score.

You have to. All about protecting the integrity for the remainder of the field. Not pleasant and I don't enjoy doing it but it has to be done. In our weekend bounce games I'd mention it to the player in question, if only to try and prevent them doing the same thing again and getting penalised.

 

[User101]

Does anyone feel that they are being seen as almost accusing the said player of cheating ?? I think it's such a difficult situation and I'm the worlds worst diplomat as some of you may have noticed.

 

[rosecott]

Does anyone feel that they are being seen as almost accusing the said player of cheating ?? I think it's such a difficult situation and I'm the worlds worst diplomat as some of you may have noticed.

Hadn't noticed - but you have to be thick skinned if you want to get the message across. Experience will tell you if anyone is trying it on and you have to be sure of your view of the situation.

 

[User101]

Hadn't noticed - but you have to be thick skinned if you want to get the message across. Experience will tell you if anyone is trying it on and you have to be sure of your view of the situation.

If someone doesn't call out provisional I don't think they are trying it on, but the ball marking, the same player has done it before and I didn't say anything, do I think he's trying it on, hmm...marking your ball to the side for no good reason just doesn't add up for me.

 

[shortgame]

Does anyone feel that they are being seen as almost accusing the said player of cheating ?? I think it's such a difficult situation and I'm the worlds worst diplomat as some of you may have noticed.

It's always awkward for sure and some are very quick to take offence

There's no choice though really or room for discretion even when there's no advantage gained from an innocent mistake

 

[Slab]

If someone doesn't call out provisional I don't think they are trying it on, but the ball marking, the same player has done it before and I didn't say anything, do I think he's trying it on, hmm...marking your ball to the side for no good reason just doesn't add up for me.

For the ball marking I'd treat it exactly the same way I would if they'd moved their marker a club-head to the side to clear someone's line and then didn't put it back before replacing ball, i.e they just forgot they marked to the side/moved one clubhead.

So its just a friendly reminder to correct it before making the stroke

 

[hovis]

i recently played a big 3 day comp. on the last day i was paired with the potential winner. my batteries ran out on my rangefinder on the 15th. i asked if i could use his so i didn't waste time changing batteries on the tee. he obliged only for me to find out he hadn't turned the slope function off on his laser. very awkward conversation followed and somehow i ended up being the clubhouse villain

 

[Crazyface]

]Not too fussed if some one says “provisional” or not.
“Reload” or “I’ll hit another” says the same to me.
[/B]
And if I saw a whiffed putt, I’d be questioning who the hell ive stuck my name down with and add the stroke. That’s after I’ve picked myself up off the floor in hysterics.

But it's not. Which ball is he going to play when he arrives to the points where they are......the best one! This is not allowed.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Hadn't noticed - but you have to be thick skinned if you want to get the message across. Experience will tell you if anyone is trying it on and you have to be sure of your view of the situation.

I think that if you are a player who is known as a go-to for advice on rules - or indeed is known as someone who knows the rules and tries to help out others in understanding them - and you build up this reputation in friendly golf - then 'pulling someone up' in a comp becomes quite easy as the player knows that you are not taking the p, and you know what you are talking about. Don't be a smarty-pants 'know-it-all' - just a friendly advisor trying to do the best for everyone.

I often find myself chatting casually about the rules with playing companions as we knock a ball around in a friendly - not all the time - but especially if the opportunity arises and a PC raises a particular subject.

So for instance the classic around our track is - 'difficult slopes on this green and it becomes so fast in summer that it is dead easy to putt off the green and away down the slope - leaving a difficult return pitch' At that point I'll often raise how it is a perfect scenario for using Stroke and Distance - and inevitably my PCs won't have realised what you can actually do under S&D and when you can do it.

 

[Kellfire]

I had a situation during the second round of our club championship where someone in the final group couldn't find his ball and he remarked that he was going to "go back and hit a provisional to save time". He seemed really annoyed at me when I informed him that doing so would mean that ball was in play.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I'd happily mention all to playing partners, and even on recent social called an out of bounds as beyond line or markers even within the fence.

Yet the provisional bit I don't really get, surely there is no possible advantage to not calling it a provisional. If you call it, hit the provisional well and happy to be there for three then you simply won't go find your ball. Even if you think it may be on the edge of trouble you can normally see from afar, it takes some searching to find a ball that puts you in a worse position than three of the tee even after taking a drop on finding it. Where as if your provisional is worse then you probably would go hunting and have the chance not to play provisional and take a second attempt from the tee.

If you go looking for your first ball having not called it as a provisional, then it's clear you didn't consider it lost and therefore can't play from the centre (or you can ask them as they head to the trees "Is the second a provisional then if you don't want confrontation). Then you could go back to the tee and no worse off although not necessarily guaranteed the same result as your 2nd on the 3rd shot.

Upside seems much better on the first option, and unlikely on the second.

 

[Slab]

I had a situation during the second round of our club championship where someone in the final group couldn't find his ball and he remarked that he was going to "go back and hit a provisional to save time". He seemed really annoyed at me when I informed him that doing so would mean that ball was in play.

Yup its surprising how many people do not react well to any rules information that doesn't meet their own beliefs/understanding

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd happily mention all to playing partners, and even on recent social called an out of bounds as beyond line or markers even within the fence.

Yet the provisional bit I don't really get, surely there is no possible advantage to not calling it a provisional. If you call it, hit the provisional well and happy to be there for three then you simply won't go find your ball. Even if you think it may be on the edge of trouble you can normally see from afar, it takes some searching to find a ball that puts you in a worse position than three of the tee even after taking a drop on finding it. Where as if your provisional is worse then you probably would go hunting and have the chance not to play provisional and take a second attempt from the tee.

If you go looking for your first ball having not called it as a provisional, then it's clear you didn't consider it lost and therefore can't play from the centre (or you can ask them as they head to the trees "Is the second a provisional then if you don't want confrontation). Then you could go back to the tee and no worse off although not necessarily guaranteed the same result as your 2nd on the 3rd shot.

Upside seems much better on the first option, and unlikely on the second.

The definition of a provisional is deliberately clear cut and absolute for very good reasons. Hitting a provisional is not an option under the rules to enable you to have a choice between a found original ball and the provisional ...it is simply a measure of expediency that saves time walking back to the tee when you cannot find your original ball - or you get to where your ball might be and you decide to not bother looking for it and choose to put another ball into play.

That you accept that there can be circumstances (and there are actually many and it is not rare) that finding your original could make you worse off than playing your provisional explains absolutely why the choice is not given.

Having hit a provisional you can of course then choose to not bother looking for your ball (that's the choice you have unless your ball is found) - and in many circumstances you actually might not want to find it given your subsequent options when having to play it.

 

[Slab]

I'd happily mention all to playing partners, and even on recent social called an out of bounds as beyond line or markers even within the fence.

Yet the provisional bit I don't really get, surely there is no possible advantage to not calling it a provisional. If you call it, hit the provisional well and happy to be there for three then you simply won't go find your ball. Even if you think it may be on the edge of trouble you can normally see from afar, it takes some searching to find a ball that puts you in a worse position than three of the tee even after taking a drop on finding it. Where as if your provisional is worse then you probably would go hunting and have the chance not to play provisional and take a second attempt from the tee.

If you go looking for your first ball having not called it as a provisional, then it's clear you didn't consider it lost and therefore can't play from the centre (or you can ask them as they head to the trees "Is the second a provisional then if you don't want confrontation). Then you could go back to the tee and no worse off although not necessarily guaranteed the same result as your 2nd on the 3rd shot.

Upside seems much better on the first option, and unlikely on the second.

I'm probably just reading it wrong but if 1st not found and provisional not found then your next tee shot is playing 5
Only if 1st found can you disregard provisional shot

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I'm probably just reading it wrong but if 1st not found and provisional not found then your next tee shot is playing 5
Only if 1st found can you disregard provisional shot

I had in my mind, that you play first goes into trouble, play a provisional (so 3rd shot) in more trouble, then play another provisional (5th shot). If you go searching for your first ball and find it, then aren't your provisionals then not in play and you have the option of dropping within two club lengths, going back in line with the hole or playing again from the tee so in which case it would be beneficial to try and find the first as you may get a second attempt at playing your third shot if that makes sense.

I appreciate the rule is solely there to save time, but I still think there is such limited possibilities where you would easily find your first and be in a worse spot than three of the tee that it's a fair assumption that it's a provisional and therefore be allowed to play their first if they did just say "reload". Saying that I may now query someone as they head of to find their first ball if they haven't explicitly said provisional to make sure they don't do it the other way round and to get a shot at their provisional.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I had in my mind, that you play first goes into trouble, play a provisional (so 3rd shot) in more trouble, then play another provisional (5th shot). If you go searching for your first ball and find it, then aren't your provisionals then not in play and you have the option of dropping within two club lengths, going back in line with the hole or playing again from the tee so in which case it would be beneficial to try and find the first as you may get a second attempt at playing your third shot if that makes sense.

I appreciate the rule is solely there to save time, but I still think there is such limited possibilities where you would easily find your first and be in a worse spot than three of the tee that it's a fair assumption that it's a provisional and therefore be allowed to play their first if they did just say "reload". Saying that I may now query someone as they head of to find their first ball if they haven't explicitly said provisional to make sure they don't do it the other way round and to get a shot at their provisional.

You are right on trying to find your original ball if both your provisional are in deep doo doo.

But on the other point. I'd say that it is not at all rare for a ball that could be lost being in a position that makes very difficult recovery in two shots - including any drops (plural) for unplayable - back to where your provisional is sitting.

 

[Orikoru]

So a couple of incidents recently.

#1 PP marks his ball to the side rather than behind, then when he remarks he marks in front.

I tell him to remark to side.

#2 PP chops one in to trees, says "I'll reload" I say "anything else you'd liek to add to that ? " He replies...provisional ball.

Another day, different PP.

#1 Chops one in to trees, gets another ball out his bag, hits 2nd ball, doesn't say "provisional ball"

#2 Same PP has a "Hale Irwin" putt but doesn't count it.

How would you react to these....and try and be honest putting yourself in my position.


Both these games were in competition.

I shall be honest, as someone who doesn't really willfully engage in conflict.

The marking issue I probably would have not said anything in all honesty. Maybe written it off as a mistake in my mind - if he did it a further time or two in the round then he would have gone down in my estimation but again I doubt I would have said anything.

When they've teed up another ball, I may well have just asked "are you playing a provisional?" if they hadn't stated it out loud. I've not had this situation though, everyone I've played with from my club has stated provisional as well as describing the ball markings etc.

Had to google what you meant by Hale Irwin putt, but presumably you mean missed the ball? I have no clue how you would miss the ball on a putt and I've never seen it happen. If I did I would probably be too taken aback/busy laughing to even think about whether he counted it or not.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

You are right on trying to find your original ball if both your provisional are in deep doo doo.

But on the other point. I'd say th<script id="gpt-impl-0.17752029509280376" src="https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/gpt/pubads_impl_205.js"></script>at it is not at all rare for a ball that could be lost being in a position that makes very difficult recovery in two shots - including any drops (plural) for unplayable - back to where your provisional is sitting.

I think the difference in view is in the context. I agree that if you go hunting for a lost ball in the undergrowth and find it, you probably do create a situation where it's difficult to get out in two so back to the tee.

I'm suggesting that when people hit their provisional down the fairway, then they probably have a casual glance in the direction or walk by the first cut. If they can see it before they get to the trees/undergrowth then it's unlikely to be difficult to get out in two (although I appreciate it could happen if they hit a bad or too ambitious recovery shot - likely that they'd select to go try and identify it if they think it can be seen from a far.)

Agreed though I hadn't thought as hard about some one going fully in looking for their first for a few mins, finding it and then declaring that their second tee shot isn't a provisional as that seems a complete lie given the intention they've shown by searching but would be hard to prove.