How many will submit “Qualfying Cards”

[Jimaroid]

It is being required of us, but when I thought it through I realised it need not make any difference whatsoever to how I play our rollup. We have been booking into it and scoring it through the clubs IG for a year now, and so we just keep doing the same. Prior to using IG we handed our cards in for the rollup comp. The only difference now is that behind the scenes the round goes into my pot of 20. That it’s now a counting round I now realise I can simply ignore - that it counts for my pot is a complete by-the-by.

It's not made a difference to you because your rollups are different to our rollups.

My rollups are all bounce games with gimmes and adjusted handicap of a two shot cut if you won the pot the previous week.

 

[Bdill93]

Yes, you have said, numerous times how you are going to deal with it. We are all different. The point is still, that for 40% of your swindle, your golf club are making them put a card in when they don't want to. It really is not hard to understand. Not everyone thinks like you, or wants to.

Out of interest - what is your swindle doing? Have they communicated anything out to you about this subject? Can you choose or will it be forced upon you?

 

[Bdill93]

It's not made a difference to you because your rollups are different to our rollups.

My rollups are all bounce games with gimmes and adjusted handicap of a two shot cut if you won the pot the previous week.

I though you couldnt submit a round with gimmies for handicap purposes - even under whs? (They can in America - its the culture over there)

 

[Imurg]

I believe at the moment it is down to individual clubs. I hope my club does not take the view that Hughs club have done.

I think if enough of you kick up a stink or at least express your opinions strongly you may get them on your side.

 

[USER1999]

Out of interest - what is your swindle doing? Have they communicated anything out to you about this subject? Can you choose or will it be forced upon you?

No swindle til May, and the organisers at present run them how they want, but no cards are submitted, unless the individual is doing a supplementary. It will not be down to the organiser to decide that these rounds count for handicap.
If the edict comes from the handicap secretary, that is when it will become more difficult.

 

[USER1999]

I think if enough of you kick up a stink or at least express your opinions strongly you may get them on your side.

Very much depends on whether the few who make the decisions at committee level are open minded, or closed minded on this.

One thing that will always be in their minds is how much money the roll ups generate, and how much of the atmosphere in the club house is dependant on roll ups.

 

[Jimaroid]

I though you couldnt submit a round with gimmies for handicap purposes

You can't and we won't. That's almost the entire point being made?

 

[USER1999]

You can't and we won't. That's almost the entire point being made?

But if the club say it's an organised thingy, and say you have to, then you will have to put out, and put the cards in. It's down to the club I guess.

 

[DanFST]

Start a separate thread, I'll get the popcorn

I can take the general negativity on here, but not towards dogs.

If i start a thread I'll get a ban.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's not made a difference to you because your rollups are different to our rollups.

My rollups are all bounce games with gimmes and adjusted handicap of a two shot cut if you won the pot the previous week.

Which is just as mine. Except our rollup handicap is cut 0.1 for every £1 of the pot the top 3 win.

In our four ball groups we also usually agree amongst ourselves to play a 4BBB match alongside our rollup individual comp. Going forward for that 4BBB match gimmes will continue to be given - just that we'll then have to hole out for the rollup comp (for WHS purposes). We'll score our rollup card in accordance with our club/course playing handicap and that will go into our WHS pot of 20. For the rollup comp I think that the organisers will then simply manually apply any rollup handicap adjustments to find the rollup 1-2-3.

That the club also runs a 'pay-on-day' stableford comp every Sat and Sun that we can enter alongside our rollup, and the way the roll-ups are run, means that it is really easy making the roll-ups WHS counting rounds - as they are often for many of us also club Sat/Sun stableford qualifier comp rounds. I get that that will not be the case for every roll-up.

 

[Jimaroid]

But if the club say it's an organised thingy, and say you have to, then you will have to put out, and put the cards in. It's down to the club I guess.

If a club chooses to act that way, sure, but why would they? I think they'd be daft to do that. Our rollups aren't an authorized format of play so scores aren't acceptable for handicap purposes, it's consistent with the WHS Rules of Handicapping.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Lots of people quite simply don't want to put a card in. If they are having a knock with their mates and lose a ball they might not want to walk back because there is a possibility they could still score a point if they do so. Or they might not want to hole out every putt when they are 99% certain they will hole from 3ft. Or they might duff a chip and want to pull the ball back and have another go. I will play loads of competitions this year (hopefully) and I'm sure I will also submit additional counting scores but I will only do so when it suits me. If that means that I play 100 non counting rounds then so be it.

Which is the point I made, and the one people are choosing to ignore.

If you’re doing those things (which are all absolutely fine) you’re not playing to the rules of golf, and thus shouldn’t be expected to put a score in.

But if you’re keeping score as part of a swindle / roll-up / society or whatever you want to call it, then the whole point of WHS is that these become a part of your handicap, so that it can accurately reflect where you’re at.

Again, nobody is suggesting that you shouldn’t be able to have dick about rounds where you drop a couple of balls down for chipping practice, lord knows I’ll be doing that. But anytime I play 18 holes and play by the rules, I’ll be putting a card in.

 

[Jimaroid]

Which is just as mine. Except our rollup handicap is cut 0.1 for every £1 of the pot the top 3 win.

In our four ball groups we also usually agree amongst ourselves to play a 4BBB match alongside our rollup individual comp. Going forward for that 4BBB match gimmes will continue to be given - just that we'll then have to hole out for the rollup comp (for WHS purposes). We'll score our rollup card in accordance with our club/course playing handicap and that will go into our WHS pot of 20. For the rollup comp I think that the organisers will then simply manually apply any rollup handicap adjustments to find the rollup 1-2-3.

That the club also runs a 'pay-on-day' stableford comp every Sat and Sun that we can enter alongside our rollup, and the way the roll-ups are run, means that it is really easy making the roll-ups WHS counting rounds - as they are often for many of us also club Sat/Sun stableford qualifier comp rounds. I get that that will not be the case for every roll-up.

I think you've made this all unnecessarily complex but you've forced me into wasting time reading the rules to check my understanding.

In my case, the club in question has determined our rollups are neither an authorized format nor an organized competition. Two simple reasons, 1. we don't pre-register, its balls out a hat. 2. we don't adhere to the rules of golf with gimmes.

In terms of submitting scores for handicap purposes as a result nothing has changed nor needs to change. So again, what your club chooses to do is not what my club chooses to do.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Which is just as mine. Except our rollup handicap is cut 0.1 for every £1 of the pot the top 3 win.

In our four ball groups we also usually agree amongst ourselves to play a 4BBB match alongside our rollup individual comp. Going forward for that 4BBB match gimmes will continue to be given - just that we'll then have to hole out for the rollup comp (for WHS purposes). We'll score our rollup card in accordance with our club/course playing handicap and that will go into our WHS pot of 20. For the rollup comp I think that the organisers will then simply manually apply any rollup handicap adjustments to find the rollup 1-2-3.

That the club also runs a 'pay-on-day' stableford comp every Sat and Sun that we can enter alongside our rollup, and the way the roll-ups are run, means that it is really easy making the roll-ups WHS counting rounds - as they are often for many of us also club Sat/Sun stableford qualifier comp rounds. I get that that will not be the case for every roll-up.

So you will have a gimmie in the 4BBB match and then the person has been given the gimmie will also have to hole out for a scorecard ?‍

Blimey talk about making things complicated

A club can’t force roll ups to submit cards - it seems your roll up is just making things beyond complicated for themselves and making it awkward and recipe for all sorts of issues.

It should be very simple

Scorecard goes in for an organised club competition

If someone wants to put in a General Play card , they pre registers on the app , play the round under competition conditions and enter score

Anyone else just crack on and play how you like

 

[Jimaroid]

If you’re doing those things (which are all absolutely fine) you’re not playing to the rules of golf, and thus shouldn’t be expected to put a score in.

But if you’re keeping score as part of a swindle / roll-up / society or whatever you want to call it, then the whole point of WHS is that these become a part of your handicap, so that it can accurately reflect where you’re at.

You're missing the union of the two, a third clause. Keeping score in a swindle / roll-up / society while not playing to the rules of golf so can't form part of your handicap.

That's what the 41.3% answering no in the poll represent.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Which is the point I made, and the one people are choosing to ignore.

If you’re doing those things (which are all absolutely fine) you’re not playing to the rules of golf, and thus shouldn’t be expected to put a score in.

But if you’re keeping score as part of a swindle / roll-up / society or whatever you want to call it, then the whole point of WHS is that these become a part of your handicap, so that it can accurately reflect where you’re at.

Again, nobody is suggesting that you shouldn’t be able to have dick about rounds where you drop a couple of balls down for chipping practice, lord knows I’ll be doing that. But anytime I play 18 holes and play by the rules, I’ll be putting a card in.

Yeah I get that. I'll decide on the day if I want to submit a card or not depending on the conditions, who I'm playing with and basically whether or not I can be bothered. A lot of the time I won't simply because I won't want to.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

You're missing the union of the two, a third clause. Keeping score in a swindle / roll-up / society while not playing to the rules of golf so can't form part of your handicap.

That's what the 41.3% answering no in the poll represent.

Perhaps, but I’ve never played in a roll-up / swindle etc with cash on the line where people aren’t fussed about the rules - with the possible exception of gimmes which are only there to speed play up (... if you can miss, it’s not a gimme). But I can’t believe the strength of opposition to this is because people don’t want to hole 1ft putts?

I genuinely just find it rather gung-ho that 41.3% have said that they will NEVER pop a card in outside of a club competition, even if they know exactly what they shot, particularly as clubs have been asked to encourage members to do this in the formats we’re discussing.

 

[jimbob.someroo]

Yeah I get that. I'll decide on the day if I want to submit a card or not depending on the conditions, who I'm playing with and basically whether or not I can be bothered. A lot of the time I won't simply because I won't want to.

This is exactly what I will do, I guess it’s just likely that my criteria for when I will pop a card in will be different. And on the days I don’t, I’ll hit a few balls and practice chipping etc.

I genuinely don’t think anyone is arguing that you shouldn’t be able to do this. But at the same time, if I turn up and know that I’m going to be playing 18 holes and not just practicing, I’ll almost always put the card in. If after a few holes I’m playing crap, I’ll practice for the rest of the round knowing that this score won’t be in my ‘top 8’. Conversely, if I’m playing alright, it gives me something to concentrate on for the rest of the round which I found so much more beneficial and enjoyable when we could do this for a brief month pre-Xmas!

 

[jim8flog]

Has there been a definitive "Roll ups are comps" decision or is it being left to clubs..?
I'm fine with putting non competition cards in when you want but not fine with being told when that will be....

It is up to the club to decide. Rules Of Handicapping 2.1a(iii)

 

[KenL]

Dogs are allowed at quite a number of courses(lots don't allow dogs), for example :-

Dogs Play For Free At Sunningdale Golf Club | Only A Game (wbur.org)

Dogs are allowed on a lead at my club, they are always great company.
However, they are now allowed during comps. A pity as they don't swear like troopers or chuck clubs like some of the humans.