3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
I could not initially Phil but had to wait 10 seconds. Some of the info is old but there is plenty of it and somebody has spent a long time producing all the charts
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
https://silo.tips/download/congu-handicapping-system-myths-misconceptions
Phil
Look at the bottom of the page after scrolling through the adverts.
Hope this helps
Phil
Look at the bottom of the page after scrolling through the adverts.
Hope this helps
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Cheers
So as it’s saying - most of the winners come from the old cat 2 and 3
And then he is trying to use percentage of entries to counter it
So the overriding point is still the same - the majority of winners come from the mid to high handicap - and it’s a combination of a multiple reasons and not just down to the number of entries. The report doesn’t include the likes of new golfers improving , juniors improving , returning golfers etc - lots of variables
doublebogey7
Head Pro
Sorry wrote that in rush.
Old cat 1's as group took more out of the prize pot than they contributed in entry fee's. Our prize pot is approx 80% of entry fee's. A total of 16 competitions were in my sample each with around 150 entries in each.
As I said in a previous post, this means that the low boys would be financially worse off if we went to divisions.
Cat 1's won more often than you except than would be expected given the small number of entries from Cat 1's.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Seems like the view of a (whingeing) low-capper!
The use of percentages is to determine whether they are getting more, less, or about their correct 'fair share'! About as sensible as stating a restaurant is expensive - because it has 1 meal or wine that (justifiably) is high priced!
I remember seeing that, or a similar, study around the same time I did mine and it didn't match our results. I did note that the Pros were quite active in teaching and primarily that group (of which I was one), so that was another 'external influence'.
Simply put...the majority of winners come from the mid to high handicap because there's lots more of them! Are low-cappers getting their fair share of wins? Quite likely. But Categories keeps everone happy.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Back to OP. Fairly small membership, two divisions. No gross prize. Decent 2s pay out.
Weekend just gone div 1 was won by a +1 hcp, and a 2 hcp was second.
If combined the +1 would have been 3rd, two points off winning.
I actually was in same group as the div 2 1st and 2nd places. 2nd place I've played with several times and he had his best round to date, kept the major blow ups off. The winner, well less history - did have a fairly repetitive fade/slice and it generally worked out, on other days could imagine it creating problems.
Weekend just gone div 1 was won by a +1 hcp, and a 2 hcp was second.
If combined the +1 would have been 3rd, two points off winning.
I actually was in same group as the div 2 1st and 2nd places. 2nd place I've played with several times and he had his best round to date, kept the major blow ups off. The winner, well less history - did have a fairly repetitive fade/slice and it generally worked out, on other days could imagine it creating problems.
Foxholer
Blackballed
That was different from my 'study' which was not as extensive as yours - fewer comps. But the 2 would 'balance' along the lines of the overall one done in the item you quoted. It (quite possibly) may be that individual courses favour different groups/divisions.
mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
We have moved to 3 divisions this year as an influx of new members post lockdown(s) has increased the average handicap such that division 2 we starting too high.
As far as gross prizes are concerned these are under active consideration. Interestingly the debate was started via the team competitions over the winter (particularly scrambles) where a gross prize was considered as a way so encouraging lower handicap golfers to enter. Now extending to medals and potentially stableford comps.
Foxholer
Blackballed
I suspect, from later posts, that you are one of those 'getting a bit disillusioned'. Divisions, based on HIs rather than on numbers should reduce/remove such 'disillusionment'. But that's also likely to introduce a different distortion/bias!
A Gross prize gives low cappers an additional - and possibly more appropriate - target.
Handicapped and Gross competitions are separate things. Those in favour of gross prizes should advocate for two separate entries to those two separate competitions. Enter the gross, the handicap, or both, according to your preference.
wjemather
Well-known member
Absolute nonsense. Competitions routinely have gross and nett prizes (especially those where gross is the main event) as that is what makes most sense and is easy to administer.
Is is not nonsense to have people enter a competition they cannot win? Our typical weekend comp entry is 120 players. Gross is ALWAYS won by one of 4 player from scratch to plus 2. The handful of 1 to 3 men cannot beat them. Let alone the other 110 golfer from 5 upwards.
Thats not a real competition.
Thats not a real competition.
sweaty sock
Hacker
Well if the point is that everyone has a fair and equal chance regardless of aptitude or application, then its not really a competition at all is it.
wjemather
Well-known member
What you are saying seems contradictory in a sport where the primary goal is getting the ball into the hole in the fewest number of strokes.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I have an idea then - shall we make fair and square on everyone and make it so the person who has scored the less wins - so the winner is the best with the best ability on the day
That’s fair isn’t it ? Judging on ability
So one comp , one division, the person who goes round in the lowest wins
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
Yes.
Given the talk of prize money it’s clear that is what some people are playing for. As such I wouldn’t trust them their HI.
Let the best player win.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Club comps would shrink and die if that, alone, was implemented!
AliMc
Well-known member
But not the case in every club, we have 40+ players from + h'caps to 0.9 and over 100 up to 5.0, anyone from them and higher have picked up the scratch prize
sweaty sock
Hacker
I can only think they will shrink and die under whs too. Its already the case in the US. They play maybe 3 comps a year and enter with either the full expectation (or intention) of a false handicap winning.
Hopefully a while away, and hopefully time to change.
I can definately say if I could play off the back tees without entering a comp, I wouldn't enter comps!
Foxholer
Blackballed
I've no experience of the US Club environment, but can't see why you are connecting WHS with their situation/problem. You may as well have stated that it's because they drive on the right!
FWIW, the Club I play at allows play off the back tees - if you dare! Par 72;CR 74.9;Slope 145 and lots of water!
