rulefan
Tour Winner
The Rules do not define 'Addressing the ball'
Haotong Li penalty
- Thread starter fundy
- Start date
rulefan
Tour Winner
Have you actually read the rule? The breach was not about lining anything up. It was for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The Rule says " ... once the player begins taking a stance ..."
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
Here is the definitive response:
It was always “Lee one pen†but even Franny would not have expected 2!!
It was always “Lee one pen†but even Franny would not have expected 2!!
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Just watched the end in real time and nobody ( commentators etc) in the telecast says a word.
Not even close to a pen imo.
Think they need to address this split second video evidence.
If that was Woods or Mickelson I think the outcome would be different, rules or no rules.
Not even close to a pen imo.
Think they need to address this split second video evidence.
If that was Woods or Mickelson I think the outcome would be different, rules or no rules.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Franny the original diver.
rulefan
Tour Winner
STATEMENT FROM R&A CHIEF EXECUTIVE MARTIN SLUMBERS ON THE LI HAOTONG RULING
Martin Slumbers, Chief Executive of The R&A, said, “We have reviewed the Li Haotong ruling made by the European Tour referees and agree that it was correct. There has been some misunderstanding of the new Rule and I would point out that it is designed to prevent any opportunity for the caddie to stand behind the player as he begins to take his stance. Whether the player intends to be lined up is not the issue. We appreciate that it was a very unfortunate situation yesterday and I completely understand Keith Pelley's concerns when a Rules incident occurs at such a key stage of a European Tour event but there is no discretionary element to the Rule precisely so that it is easier to understand and can be applied consistently.
“We are continuing to monitor the impact of the new Rules but I made it clear to Keith that our focus is very much on maintaining the integrity of the Rules for all golfers worldwide.â€
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Do they define starting to take a stance?
This varies from player to player
Some start like Li right foot.
Some start with putter head so how does the referee know where it starts?
Colin L
Tour Winner
Yes "they" do.
Stance
The position of a player’s feet and body in preparing for and making a stroke.
It's worth noting that the positioning of the body is part of the stance, not just of the feet.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
What about putter head , I always start with my putter head square then put my feet square to that?
But I can’t get the head to the ball without having my feet close enough to reach .
So when does my stance start ?
These rules are making it worse imo , as a lot of players will need lessons as to when their stance starts.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Simple answer would be for the caddy to make sure he was no-where near the player before he tackes his stance and the player to check his caddy was no-where near as to cause him a penalty.
They all must know the rules, and the latest amendmants and if they didnt it serves them right.
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
or hes a young golfer with a local caddie who was just trying to get out of the winners way on the 18th green
still, good to see the rulies having a field day
Wolf
Well-known member
Seems to me Orikoru gets vilified again for having an emotional opinion a rule is unfair and shouldn't have been applied using discretion, many others on here agree the ruling is harsh including myself and having read the statement Keith Pelley also believes this to be the case and is going to speak with Martin Slumbers about it. Yet so many people defend the rules because we'll they're the rules and everyone should accept it.
Just because that's what the book says and we have to apply doesn't make it something we have to agree with and not question.
I'd be interested in hearing Li's and his Caddy views on this.
Just because that's what the book says and we have to apply doesn't make it something we have to agree with and not question.
I'd be interested in hearing Li's and his Caddy views on this.
Robster59
Tour Rookie
Fair enough. A lesson for everyone.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Li moved his feet at least six times maybe more so which one is the start.
It will be different for other players it’s far to open to interpretation.
This rule is ill thought out unless a rigid “this is when your stance starts is publishedâ€
But how can that be done?
rulie
Head Pro
Apparently Pelley did speak with the R&A, and here is their response:
For Immediate Publication
STATEMENT FROM R&A CHIEF EXECUTIVE MARTIN SLUMBERS ON THE LI HAOTONG RULING
Martin Slumbers, Chief Executive of The R&A, said, “We have reviewed the Li Haotong ruling made by the European Tour referees and agree that it was correct. There has been some misunderstanding of the new Rule and I would point out that it is designed to prevent any opportunity for the caddie to stand behind the player as he begins to take his stance. Whether the player intends to be lined up is not the issue. We appreciate that it was a very unfortunate situation yesterday and I completely understand Keith Pelley's concerns when a Rules incident occurs at such a key stage of a European Tour event but there is no discretionary element to the Rule precisely so that it is easier to understand and can be applied consistently.
“We are continuing to monitor the impact of the new Rules but I made it clear to Keith that our focus is very much on maintaining the integrity of the Rules for all golfers worldwide.â€
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
He managed ok for 71 holes!
But got caught out because he was trying to get out of the winners way.
Tiger or Phil same outcome ? I think not!
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
Better rule would be the moment the club goes behind the ball. This is the moment of truth and the thing which actually strikes the ball.
rulie
Head Pro
Here is what the specific Rule says:
(4) Restriction on Caddie Standing Behind Player. When a player begins taking a stance for the stroke and until the stroke is made:
- The player’s caddie must not deliberately stand in a location on or close to an extension of the line of play behind the ball for any reason.
Rule 10.2b(4) does not allow a player to have his or her caddie deliberately stand behind him or her when the player begins taking a stance because aiming at the intended target is one of the challenges the player must overcome alone.
There is no set procedure for determining when a player has begun to take a stance since each player has his or her own set-up routine. However, if a player has his or her feet or body close to a position where useful guidance on aiming at the intended target could be given, it should be decided that the player has begun to take his or her stance.
Examples of when a player has begun to take a stance include when:
- The player is standing beside the ball but facing the hole with his or her club behind the ball, and then starts to turn his or her body to face the ball.
- After standing behind the ball to determine the target line, the player takes a step forward and then starts to turn his or her body and puts a foot in place for the stroke.
Wolf
Well-known member
Well seems that the ivory tower at the R&A based on that statement hasn't really acknowledged the ambiguity of the situation and fairness of how to apply the ruling. Doesn't matter how many times the rule is Quoted and posted it still doesn't sit right morally with many.
Yes under the new rules wording they can argue it was applied 100% correctly but having watched it several times I still don't agree that is what occurred. Likewise if it stated the putter head begined the ball no problem no room for error as that would be clear to decipher.
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