Haotong Li penalty

[Deleted member 15344]

There is a huge case that he hasn't even begun to address the ball until well after the caddy has cleared.

Address the ball means to set the club in behind the ball.

Setting a stance is completely different.

Going into your stance is part of the process of addressing your ball - people use their feet for alignment so it’s all part of what they are trying to remove by bring in the rule

If you watch the video the caddy still looks over whilst Li is taking his stance so whilst it’s very marginal and harsh by the letter of the law it’s correct , Li should have made sure the caddy was well away before walking into his stance

 

[Grant85]

Whilst it seems harsh, the rule change does cover it fairly well....

New Rule: Under Rule 10.2b(4):

• The previous prohibition is extended so that, once the player begins taking a stance for the stroke, and until the stroke is made, the player’s caddie must not deliberately stand on or close to an extension of the line of play behind the ball for any reason.
• There is no penalty if the caddie accidentally stands on or close to an extension of the line of play behind the ball, rather than in trying to help in lining up.

Technically, the ruling was fair enough.

But still seems very harsh to make an example of this, especially one that is so marginal.

Also, are they really going to enforce this over hundreds of putts a day. i.e. have an official on every green, for every day, all day?
Surely if Li and his caddie have been operating like that all week with the caddie reading putts for him, they must have been close to other infringements.

Agree that a big hitter would not have been penalised, albeit maybe the chap Li has a history of asking his caddie to line him up.

Only positive is that we surely won't see this happen again, accidentally at least.

 

[Slab]

Off topic I'd rather the rules guys stateside had punished the player (Matsuyama I think) for 'resting' his wedge behind the ball several times in the thick rough (for his greenside chip on 18 I think it was)
Certainly improved the lie on that one and meant no blades of grass between clubface & ball

 

[robinthehood]

If he was resting the club then that's not a problem. If he is actively pressing then that's a different matter.

 

[Slab]

If he was resting the club then that's not a problem. If he is actively pressing then that's a different matter.

Yeah I'm absolutely sure he would say he was just resting it & since the camera was in nice and close we could see he definitely 'rested' it right behind the ball 3 or 4 times to the point the grass was much flatter

 

[cliveb]

The previous prohibition is extended so that, once the player begins taking a stance for the stroke, and until the stroke is made, the player’s caddie must not deliberately stand on or close to an extension of the line of play behind the ball for any reason.

Out of interest, what happens if a player takes his stance, notices his caddy was on the line, backs away, then retakes his stance after the caddy has moved?
According to the letter of the law, the caddy was on the line when the player first started taking his stance. Does backing away cancel this?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Looks pretty damming

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I wouldn't have picked it up in play, but to me it does look like Li starts his alignment by placing the putter head square to the line and then moves it across and sorts his feet out.

In my view he had placed the putter down on the line he wanted before the caddy walks away, and then adjusts his feet to form his stance.

 

[bobmac]

Prob not what happened but when watching replays this morning you can easily imagine the caddy seeing Li move to his stance and thinking 'holy crap i'm not supposed to be here anymore!'

I agree, force of habit

 

[Orikoru]

What does it even matter if he's standing there?? A person is about 18 inches across, so how does him standing behind the player (doing nothing else) help him with the line anyway? Stupid rule.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What does it even matter if he's standing there?? A person is about 18 inches across, so how does him standing behind the player (doing nothing else) help him with the line anyway? Stupid rule.

The rule was brought in to stop caddies helping line up the players - and it’s a rule that most appeared to agree with.

It’s very marginal that Li was punished - he wasn’t made an example off the refs decided the caddy was behind him whilst he was taking his stance - it’s a new rule and it’s one both caddy and player should know about.

 

[Orikoru]

The rule was brought in to stop caddies helping line up the players - and it’s a rule that most appeared to agree with.

It’s very marginal that Li was punished - he wasn’t made an example off the refs decided the caddy was behind him whilst he was taking his stance - it’s a new rule and it’s one both caddy and player should know about.

Caddy is behind him - doing absolutely nothing other than realising he needs to move out of the way. You can see it on the video. I always seem to be saying this when it comes to golf rules, but once again, common sense is out of the window.

 

[robinthehood]

Caddy is behind him - doing absolutely nothing other than realising he needs to move out of the way. You can see it on the video. I always seem to be saying this when it comes to golf rules, but once again, common sense is out of the window.

Its because you always try include some additional notion of advantage and fairness

 

[Orikoru]

Its because you always try include some additional notion of advantage and fairness

So you think the rules should be unfair? Interesting..

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Caddy is behind him - doing absolutely nothing other than realising he needs to move out of the way. You can see it on the video. I always seem to be saying this when it comes to golf rules, but once again, common sense is out of the window.

How do you know the caddy didn’t whisper some sort of confirmation that he had the line right or something along those lines - the player is responsible for his alignment on his shots and this rule removes the caddy being involved in it as soon as he starts to take his stance - the rule is valid and it’s fair for all and they all know the rule

 

[Orikoru]

How do you know the caddy didn’t whisper some sort of confirmation that he had the line right or something along those lines - the player is responsible for his alignment on his shots and this rule removes the caddy being involved in it as soon as he starts to take his stance - the rule is valid and it’s fair for all and they all know the rule

Couldn't have done, the caddy had already started walking away before he lined anything up.

 

[robinthehood]

So you think the rules should be unfair? Interesting..

And where did I say that exactly. The problem is you always get emotional about these rule infringements.

 

[Orikoru]

And where did I say that exactly. The problem is you always get emotional about these rule infringements.

What do you mean? Are you not passionate about golf? I thought that's why we were here. When someone gets punished unfairly you find it better to just brush that under the carpet and ignore it? Let them carry on punishing people on a whim, without analysing the video evidence that we all have at our disposal in this day and age?

 

[Robster59]

Looks pretty damming

It's all about interpretation and when you stop the video. Look at this below and you can see the caddie is starting to move before he even gets his feet lined up.



In my opinion it's a bit harsh to penalise him as I don't think they were trying to get an advantage.
On another front, I agree with the ruling that the caddie shouldn't assist.

 

[Slab]

It's all about interpretation and when you stop the video. Look at this below and you can see the caddie is starting to move before he even gets his feet lined up.

View attachment 26452

In my opinion it's a bit harsh to penalise him as I don't think they were trying to get an advantage.
On another front, I agree with the ruling that the caddie shouldn't assist.

Yeah and no, Li's right foot is already in place before the caddie moves and it doesn't move again before he makes the stroke