Handicaps controversial?

[19th]

I don'think there is any controversial problem with handicaps - it is the better players who want the kudos of walking up for every prize themselves that create the problem, they can be very poor losers.
Lets take a normal golf club,(well you could not have a normal club as it would only have 20% of current members and would therefore be out of business) and lets assume that the 80/20 rule applies - that is 80% of us are rubbish and 20% are cat 1/2. I am in the 2/3 area being circa 11/13 over a season now that I have swung the sticks for circa 50 years.
This handicapless golf then raises the question as to the number who would play the game at all, play in comps or play in company other than like ability players.
If no comps why join a club? Maybe better off playing pay-as- you-play as, if you are deemed rubbish, you are only making up the numbers, in the club, for the good golfers to compete in their competitions.
In response to Freddie, above, young Sir, one of the problems that arises in life is that we all get one year older each year and therefore our abilities reflect this so the good golfer today, making this decision to exclude the rubbish, is rubbish himself in a number of years and will have to settle for bowls as age takes it's toll.

 

[RGDave]

I would agree with a previous poster that 3 cards in the year is not enough to base a handicap on, I would say 10 would be better. If you can't return 10 cards then don't expect to roll up once in a blue moon and win by miles .

OR (my pet thing), just get all the players playing in the non-qualifying games to submit their scores. If I play 40 times a year, chances are less than 6-8 are qualifying....ergo, my handicap is wrong....for good or for bad.

 

[freddielong]

Its been a while since have been called young man so that is nice thanks

I do understand where everyone is coming from I just think the system needs to change, as it is the closer you get to your ultimate ability the less chance you have of winning anything, surely that cannot be right.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I have had many a discussion about the "fairness" of the handicap system. It is a very odd system and is designed to give everyone a chance of winning, however, it does rather reward mediocrity and is flawed in that it is easily possible to maintain a false handicap. We have a guy at our club who everyone knows is a bandit and currently has an official handicap at least 6 higher than his real handicap. I'm sure every club has one. Personally, I don't see the point having a false handicap, what's the point of playing if you don't try to play your best every week?

But what do you do about it? There are rules about inactive handicaps and clubs have their own rules about qualification for major club competitions but still there are flaws. What I don't understand is how you can have an accurate handicap unless you play regularly in CONGU competitions.

The other thing that I find strange is that handicaps golbally are not calculated the same way. For example, in South Africa, your handicap is calculated using the best 10 of your last 20 rounds. I can't decide whether this is better than our system or not although I am swaying towards it being better as it is based on your ability and your increase or reduction isn't affected by how other people are playing.

For me, the best golfer should win. The problem is, if the same people win all the time other people will complain. This leads to people devising systems such that the better players superior ability is negated and the mediocrity of the lesser players is rewarded and you end up with a handicap system.

Personally, I use the handicap as a measure of my improvement, I play every round as if I was playing off scratch and try to shoot the lowest score possible to reduce my handicap. I don't enter club competitions expecting to win as I know that more than likely some cat 4 player will come in with a stupidly low score. I always play the course, just me against the course, I can't do anything about what everyone else does against the course, I just post my score and hope it is good enough to get my handicap down a bit. If I happen to win then my handicap goes down a bit more.

 

[haplesshacker]

I understand Freddies point. But what is a workable solution if what is happening now not acceptable to you?

Surely this is why we have cat 1, cat 2 etc. Our weekly comps aresplit into cats and therefore a golfer having a good day can win his cat. Regardless if they're off 28 or 1.

I've already spoken of our club championships this year.

In all it seems a pretty fair way of working it. Especially as handicaps are altered after every comp, and not just the majors or monthly medal.

From what I can tell it offers higher cappers a chance to win in their cat and therefore keep a healthy 'field' of entrants. The better players get the opportunyity to get their names on the clubhouse hall of fame boards etc. Surely everyone is happy??

I know from my previous sports that getting into the top 10% is relatively easy. It's getting into the top 5% and better that takes a lot of hard work and natural ability. Perhaps it's these frustrations that make the lower h'cap player feel a little 'miffed' when a higher h'capper takes the chocs. Now that I can understand.

 

[Mike_j_golf]

Hi,
Think the major flaw in the handicap system is guys are able to mantain high or low handicaps by not playing in comps there should be a min of 5 that you have to play every year to keep a handicap you should not be able to play opens 4ball 4somes unless you have played 5 comps in the previous year and all comps in a club should be qualifing even if they are stableford off the forward tees to give every a chance to get there 5 in.
Mike

 

[freddielong]

The current system rewards inconcistency the guy who wins the most, is the guy who is just as likely to shot 80 as 110, I know there is no easy way to change it but it does IMO need looking into

 

[JustOne]

I think that handicaps should be reversed, you start as scratch and see if you can hold onto it

I think people play both darts and snooker with h/caps (eg: 50pts start).. but they are not proper sports like golf is

 

[cumbrianhacker]

i bet there arent many winners off 28 as most of these i would assume in reality should be even higher.so it works both ways surely.i havent put my 3 cards in yet but i wont be off anything less than 28 as i just play around the 100 mark at the moment but i wont wait till im in the low 90s before i put my cards in (i might have died of old age)and i suspect many others wont.i just want to play a round off whites and meet different people at my club.

 

[Tiger]

I've got a different but related question. Why do people join a golf club? From my limited introduction to golf it seems to be to make/sustain friendships, maintain a handicap and compete in competitions. If you took away the handicap system wouldn't a significant number of players stop being members and start playing social golf taking advantage of 2-4-1 deals at a range of courses?

That would impact on revenue at the club and the atmosphere. Surely the handicap system and stableford are means of making the game enjoyable, competitive and accessible for all? Keep the club champs as scratch but monthly medals & stablefords are more than just competitions. I'm looking forward to playing in them to meet new golfers. I'd never enter in a month of Sundays if I had to play to scratch and as a result I would struggle to get better.

For me it's about understanding the purpose of each competition and setting the scoring accordingly rather than a blanket approach that does nobody any favours.

 

[JustOne]

However, in my world (in the madness of my mind) I would have 6 divisions and make everyone play for the best gross in their division.

I totally agree. 7 divisions in fact, 4 shots between each division.

 

[Marko77]

The issue of handicapping is always going to be an emotive one. Players with low hcs will in general bemoan the higher hcs while in turn they will moan about the low hcs moaning about them while none of it is said to eithers face!

I personally wouldn't bother if they were done away with but thats only becuase I'm at the lower end. I can't comment if I would still be as keen off a high hc. I used to enjoy darts matches (still do for fun against others of my standard) but I am crap and hated being given points starts v better players - any win didn't feel earned.

From having a stint as hc secretary at my club I think it is important that the person holding that position is proactive and not reactive. If there are those that are suspected as having a handicap higher than their standard (doesn't have to be play from comps - observed play counts) then they can have an adjustment placed at any time. If they feel it is harsh then they can state their case to the Committee, more often than not there is a grumble at the initial time but they live with it.

Controversy is a stong word but as long as there are nett prizes in golf there is going to be debate on handicaps.

 

[haplesshacker]

I'd go along with that idea. Lowest gross score in each division. But the club champ has to be the best player off gross.

However it wouldn't resolve the chap who's protecting his h'cap.

 

[Parmo]

But what do you do about it? There are rules about inactive handicaps and clubs have their own rules about qualification for major club competitions but still there are flaws. What I don't understand is how you can have an accurate handicap unless you play regularly in CONGU competitions.

You cut him in the annual handicap review by shots under rule 19 (I know the number has changed but you know what I mean.. Harry )

If we didn't have the handicap system, I wouldn't be playing golf, it would be boring, no one would join a club and comps would be pointless.

That said I don't play in comps to win any more, I just want to get my handicap down, but maybe there lays the problem in my game...

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think the divisions for medals and stablefords make it a more level playing field and to be honest fairer for the higher guys as well as the single figures. If a 21-28 handicapper has a dream round, and they do every now and then, they'll win their division rightly so and get cut accordingly. It still means the poor guy off 4-5 has a chance and hasn't got to shoot gross 59 to compete.

That said most of our gold letter honour board events are one offs and we rarely get a high handicapper smashing it to pieces. The club championship is gross so is normally one of handful but the handicap prize (best nett although not the true champion) is usually won by a mid handicapper - 12-20

I think the limit for non-qualifiers need to be tightened. I'd like to see a six month limit before they become inactive and a mandatory 5 card qualifying over that period. If you can't get 5 cards in over 6 months why are you shelling out to be a member?

 

[Imurg]

At my place we have 5 Cat 1 players (1,4 and 3 5's) and another 11 off 7 or below.
If the aim of every competition was to find the best player, ie the lowest gross, you can be fairly sure that the winner is going to come from this group. Why, then, would any of the other 250+ competition playing members bother to enter one?
Fragger's off 26. With luck he'll get to 15, maybe a bit less. But with the best will in the world he's not going to get to Cat1 in this lifetime. So what's the point of playing?

The handicap system lets us play against each other regardless of actual ability - leave the scratch tournaments for Freddie and the Professionals. I thought most very low of +handicappers only play scratch comps most of the time anyway..

 

[doublebogey7]

The current system rewards inconcistency the guy who wins the most, is the guy who is just as likely to shot 80 as 110, I know there is no easy way to change it but it does IMO need looking into

I'll bet if you were look on your competetion boards that there a very few members appearing more than once and no one appearing more than three times, that is certainly true at our club. The handicap system generally works very well and it is not as easy as some people claim to maintain an inflated handicap as doing so would mean not winning anything and what would be the point of that.

Active handicaps will improve the system further though only on the edges and an increase in the number of competetions required to maintain handicap may further improve matters, but we have to be careful that such changes do not put people off from playing in comps and further erode golf club memebership.

 

[CannyFifer]

i bet there arent many winners off 28 as most of these i would assume in reality should be even higher.so it works both ways surely.i havent put my 3 cards in yet but i wont be off anything less than 28 as i just play around the 100 mark at the moment but i wont wait till im in the low 90s before i put my cards in (i might have died of old age)and i suspect many others wont.i just want to play a round off whites and meet different people at my club.

well said, thats how most of our club is and thats why I play as i'm often higher but will get a 28 handicap..

 

[viscount17]

Hi,
Think the major flaw in the handicap system is guys are able to mantain high or low handicaps by not playing in comps there should be a min of 5 that you have to play every year to keep a handicap you should not be able to play opens 4ball 4somes unless you have played 5 comps in the previous year and all comps in a club should be qualifing even if they are stableford off the forward tees to give every a chance to get there 5 in.
Mike

there is another side to this coin in that if you require all would be entrants to have completed a requisite number of qualifiers then it behooves each club to provide sufficient opportunities for would be competitors to do so. This I would suggest means the demise of the cosy Saturday mates games purporting to be medal comps. Plus the introduction of twilight comps for all those of us who are forced to work. Plus all courses should have the ability to conduct qualifiers off all tees and handicap secretaries who have read the same book.

 

[USER1999]

I am currently playing with my Dad in Florida. He is off 23 (aged 77), I am off 9. He plays to 36 points way more often than me. Either I am rubbish, or he is better than 23. He puts in 40 cards a year. I put in 20. Handicaps are what they are. Trick is, he doesn't have to force it. That's the differnce. He can lay up.