Handicap System: The Biggest Loser...

The problem with all these threads it all boils down to bandits, or those who are preceived as bandits. What I would do is this. Anyone who wins, and only winners mind, a comp, by whatever margin, gets cut to that level. My theory is that if they can do it once they can do it again. Also, if they protecting a H/C to win a comp, they will only ever win one comp, as the cut they will receive will be big enough to prevent them doing so for a while. Maybe harsh, but I'm confident this would work.
 
Robobum said:
Are you sure, I think you do??????........unless it was an unofficial tournament. DQ otherwise, isn't it????:confused:
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Good point, I was thinking if it's scratch it would be irrelevant but I guess it is needed for handicap adjustments, can't see the point of it for the competition itself
 
Wish there was a mid-am style tourney for under 35's - some of aint that weathered just yet ;)

I think the football analogy doesn't really work, but if you look at other individual sports like running or cycling, there tend's not to be the same level of 'handicapping'.

1000's of people will compete in things like the great north run / london marathon because they enjoy long distance running, as well as raising money for charity. 99% of those wont win and I'm pretty sure some of the ones that go off in the 'elite' group aren't professional athletes, just good amateurs (may be wrong). If they're not the fastest, they don't win - but they might beat their personal best which is just as admirable - and they'd be happy with that. The handicap system gives everybody a sense of entitlement that they should be able to win, which is great, but not necessarily the most fair way of doing things.

As mentioned earlier, I think the system I rather jokingly suggested earlier on would actually work incredibly well as it would allow incentive to win as well as leveling the playing field a little.
 
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Anyone know how the CSS works? How do they work it out?
it baffles me when like recently at my club the Cat1,s lowest score gross wise was 75 nett 71 yet a 10 hc shot gross 77. The worse score was 94 by 11hc. CSS was 72 on par 71.
Only 7 players broke CSS, 6x71 and the nett 67 of 10. 5 of the players were cat2 the other 2 were cat1.
 
3565 said:
Anyone know how the CSS works? How do they work it out?
it baffles me when like recently at my club the Cat1,s lowest score gross wise was 75 nett 71 yet a 10 hc shot gross 77. The worse score was 94 by 11hc. CSS was 72 on par 71.
Only 7 players broke CSS, 6x71 and the nett 67 of 10. 5 of the players were cat2 the other 2 were cat1.
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A bit of a thread hijack but loosely, it is based on the % of players who score buffer or better, weighted more towards cat 1 and ignoring cat 4 (I think). Buffer is relative to SSS and CSS can be between SSS-1 and SSS+3
 
HawkeyeMS said:
A bit of a thread hijack but loosely, it is based on the % of players who score buffer or better, weighted more towards cat 1 and ignoring cat 4 (I think). Buffer is relative to SSS and CSS can be between SSS-1 and SSS+3
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Sorry you think that way, someone was asking bout CSS earlier, and this thread is bout hc system and needed to know how it worked and wondered if there was better way to adjust hc's by catorgories instead of the system now?
 
3565 said:
Sorry you think that way, someone was asking bout CSS earlier, and this thread is bout hc system and needed to know how it worked and wondered if there was better way to adjust hc's by catorgories instead of the system now?
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That's not what you asked :D
 
I think one of the big problems with the handicap system is that there is still no course rating system

The most difficult course around my way easily plays 5 shots harder than the easiest course...yet handicaps don't fluctuate to take that into account.

I think this is one of the contributing factors to there being so called 'bandits'
 
3565 said:
Fair enough. Leave you to your thread.
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Jeez: toys, pram spring to mind. You asked how CSS was calculated, not if anyone thought there was a way to calculate handicaps by categories. They are very different questions and the first didn't come across as particularly related to the thread. I'm sorry for misunderstanding you.

Lets expand on your second point, do you have any suggestions how it could be done?
 
HawkeyeMS said:
A bit of a thread hijack but loosely, it is based on the % of players who score buffer or better, weighted more towards cat 1 and ignoring cat 4 (I think). Buffer is relative to SSS and CSS can be between SSS-1 and SSS+3
Click to expand...
Just to continue the threadjack a little to correct a couple of misconceptions.....

Cat 1s have no different effect from Cat 2/3. It's percentage of field that shoot Buffer od better. Cat 4s (Men) or 5 (Ladies) scores are excluded. And it doesn't matter by how much Buffer is broken or missed. For CSS calc a guy who shooting Nett 55 only counts the same as if he had just snuck into Buffer.
As Hawkeye stated, it's related to SSS. Par is irrelevant for Handicaps except as a way to measure points scored on a hole - or any adjustment on a hole.
Calc is covered, in the UHS Manual (Appendix B). Here's the English one http://www.englandgolf.org/e-brochure/index.html. Not totally sure whether some of the Lookup Tables are actually published. They weren't in previous online versions.

Back OT.

don't really see too much of a point in having 'Best Scratch in Category/Division' comps. For me, the Best Nett (perhaps in Category/Division) works fine. I think Hawkeye is just perhaps seeing some of the 'interesting' additional 'benefits' that being a low-capper can provide but are, slightly frustratingly, still out of reach.

And maybe hasn't realised how big the low-capper pond really is! While the average handicap hasn't changed much, the numbers of (very) low cappers has actually gone up hugely! forty or fifty years ago, there were probably a hundred or so Scratch golfers in UK. These days, there are probably 10 times that many. and that ratio probably also applies to Cat 1s too. But the number of Low Handicap events has not really increased much - certainly not 10-fold - so the 'Ballot-Out' level changes = lower of course!
 
Foxholer said:
Back OT.

don't really see too much of a point in having 'Best Scratch in Category/Division' comps. For me, the Best Nett (perhaps in Category/Division) works fine. I think Hawkeye is just perhaps seeing some of the 'interesting' additional 'benefits' that being a low-capper can provide but are, slightly frustratingly, still out of reach.
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Nothing to do with my h'cap, I have always thought this, in fact I have said it on here before several times

And maybe hasn't realised how big the low-capper pond really is! While the average handicap hasn't changed much, the numbers of (very) low cappers has actually gone up hugely! forty or fifty years ago, there were probably a hundred or so Scratch golfers in UK. These days, there are probably 10 times that many. and that ratio probably also applies to Cat 1s too. But the number of Low Handicap events has not really increased much - certainly not 10-fold - so the 'Ballot-Out' level changes = lower of course!
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I wasn't aware of the scratch\cat 1 increase although I guess I am not surprised, didn't it used to be that you were allocated a scratch h'cap by the local union rather than earning it through h'cap reductions?

EDIT: It is frustrating there not being enough scratch comps, but then there are very few low Cat2s who want to play a scratch comp it seems. What would be nice is if here were scratch comps for those of us who get balloted out, but then I guess if there is no interest it won't happen. I'll just have to try to get better :D
 
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