Handicap System: The Biggest Loser...

[harpo_72]

I think the CSS calculation is just wrong .. The handicap system is okay, I don't care what people play off, every dog has his day in the sun. A good round, which is comparable to the scores of the day should lead to a rewarding cut for the player. Any one whining about their handicap being too low should have their clubs removed from them and should have to paint the club house...

 

[chrisd]

I think the CSS calculation is just wrong...

I understand the reasoning of CSS but agree that it's a nonsense. You have a good round and you want a cut and it doesn't matter to me whether the course played easy or hard on the day! I can play crap on an easy day!


Also, why if you put a card in for a well run, properly organised competition like the recent one at West Hill for HFH where my group holed out every hole properly, off the white tees with 103 players, do I think that even being 6 under my handicap (off SSS) will not earn me a cut in handicap. I do know all the arguments about non qualifying etc etc but I still shot 75 on the day and want what I've earned!

 

[Swinger]

It'll be easier handicap people properly whe we are all playing on our Xboxes in our front rooms.

The xbox will be able to determin proper potential for all player pretty quickly and how often they hit a shot to that potential also.
Also possibly factoring in how often some of the lucky gits get away with shots and maybe adjust people downwards for being so.

Just imagine going round 18 in an hour round St. Andrews without leaving your home, banter included with online chat in your 5 ball.

The future! True online handicapping.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Why should it be the lowest gross score ? Again there is already an area of golf that focuses on gross scores - it's called scratch and professional golf.


Club golf comps are "Handicap Comps" they aren't "Scratch Comps ".

That is what makes Amatuer golf - comps playing for the best net score.

It's club golf - it's playing for a 20-40 quid club pro shop voucher , or a little trophy.

I have only really come across a few who demanded winners were from the gross score not the net - they were mainly very low handicap golfers and also didn't understand the whole premise of Amatuer club golf.

i understand the premise of amateur golf, that doesn't mean I have to agree with it and can't have an opinion on different ways. You ask "Why should it be the lowest gross score?" Because that is the actual score that we shoot, that is the indication of how well we played. I would counter why should it be Nett? Why is the best Nett score "better" than the best gross?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It'll be easier handicap people properly whe we are all playing on our Xboxes in our front rooms.

The xbox will be able to determin proper potential for all player pretty quickly and how often they hit a shot to that potential also.
Also possibly factoring in how often some of the lucky gits get away with shots and maybe adjust people downwards for being so.

Just imagine going round 18 in an hour round St. Andrews without leaving your home, banter included with online chat in your 5 ball.

The future! True online handicapping.

Count me out. I don't have and never will have an X-box or similar. Still, while you're all doing that, I can skip round the real course without getting held up

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I think the CSS calculation is just wrong .. The handicap system is okay, I don't care what people play off, every dog has his day in the sun. A good round, which is comparable to the scores of the day should lead to a rewarding cut for the player. Any one whining about their handicap being too low should have their clubs removed from them and should have to paint the club house...

Don't get me started on CSS

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The nett scores count because it's a handicap competition.

In scratch comps then the gross score wins.

It's that simple.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Then people who are in say the bottom end of division 2 are getting punished compared to the guys at the top end of division 3.

I think the handicap system is as fair as can be. Its not perfect and never will be but it gives everybody a chance to compete.

The lowest handicap players still win more overall comps than the higher guys imo but the high guys can stil have their day in the sun. The odds are still slightly in favour of the lower players which is how it should be to ecourage people to improve.

Punished like the guy who scores a Nett 67 in Cat 2 and comes 4th in his division when Nett 68 wins Cat 3 at the moment (for example)? It's not being punished, it's just not the same as now.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

The nett scores count because it's a handicap competition.

In scratch comps then the gross score wins.

It's that simple.

It would still be a handicap competition, that's how you get the divisions, only the best player in that division would win. I really don't see an issue with having the best player in each division winning?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It would still be a handicap competition, that's how you get the divisions, only the best player in that division would win. I really don't see an issue with having the best player in each division winning?

But it's not - you are only using any handicap to put them into divisions then it's a scratch comp. Then the only people in each division that have a chance of winning are the lowest handicappers in each one - then others won't bother if they haven't got a chance. What chance would a 10 handicapper have in div 1 ? Slim to none.

Again you kill Amateur club golf in one quick movement

 

[Swinger]

Count me out. I don't have and never will have an X-box or similar. Still, while you're all doing that, I can skip round the real course without getting held up

The Greenkeepers will be playing August National Greenkeeper Pro. Real golf courses won't exist.
This real golf thing is on it's way out, I give it 5 years tops!

 

[Foxholer]

I think the CSS calculation is just wrong .. The handicap system is okay, I don't care what people play off, every dog has his day in the sun. A good round, which is comparable to the scores of the day should lead to a rewarding cut for the player. Any one whining about their handicap being too low should have their clubs removed from them and should have to paint the club house...

Please explain how that isn't exactly what the CSS does! Though it has its own, objective, definition of a 'good' round.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Please explain how that isn't exactly what the CSS does! Though it has its own, objective, definition of a 'good' round.

Just a random thought for CSS, but for those who don't like it, would they prefer it work on a hole by hole basis? Such that the average nett score is worked out for each hole, based on all players (individual scores capped at a net double bogey). The CSS is then the total of all the 18 average nett scores.

Or would this not make any difference to the current CSS?

 

[GB72]

I take the point about trying to be the best you can at other sports and taking golf in the same way but the problem is that other sports have long established systems of leagues, A teams, B teams etc and so you are, to a large extent always playing with people of a similar level. Imagine how it would feel to play for your local third team and be expected to play league standard opposition every week. After a few thumpings the attraction of the game starts to wear off.

Simple fact is that golf is attractive to many because you can be competitive at any level and that is why people play. I can agree that playing in divisions off scratch would still be an attractive prospect to me but the amount of administration within clubs that would be required to manage divisions, sort out how people move between them etc would be huge.

At the end of the day, everyone plays in the comp but the low handicappers play for what to me is the more presitigious lowest gross prize and then there is the club championships and scratch knockout played of scratch for the real cream to rise. Plenty there for the lower handicapper to aiming for.

The ones that really get it bad are the mid hanidcappers who have reached their peak. Rarely going to shoot the lights out to win a comp, not good enough to compete for lowest gross so have even less to play for.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

But it's not - you are only using any handicap to put them into divisions then it's a scratch comp. Then the only people in each division that have a chance of winning are the lowest handicappers in each one - then others won't bother if they haven't got a chance. What chance would a 10 handicapper have in div 1 ? Slim to none.

Again you kill Amateur club golf in one quick movement

Really, so if you had a division from 10 to 15, the 10 h'cappers would always win? I don't think they would.

Anyhow, it's just a thought and will never happen so I'll leave it there

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Really, so if you had a division from 10 to 15, the 10 h'cappers would always win? I don't think they would.

Anyhow, it's just a thought and will never happen so I'll leave it there

How many divisions do you want then because the 10-12 handicappers are normally in Div 1 ?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

How many divisions do you want then because the 10-12 handicappers are normally in Div 1 ?

Not thought that far ahead TBH

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Not thought that far ahead TBH

Think that's clear.

 

[harpo_72]

Div 1 at mine is + to 12, the normal winners are 9-12 handicap. However the margin of their wins are small or let's put it like this the difference to CSS is small allowing these guys to score 3 shots better than the other contenders and not receive a significant cut. I have benefitted from this situation, but I shot the lights out the course ( whoops!! Could have won more if not scored on the last 2 holes! ). I don't think you should separate up into gross and nett, but you should appreciate a good effort on both sides.

 

[sev112]

In my last few years at school I played a lot of chess
If you played regularly you could get a Grading - in those days a beginner was about 50, good juniors and people starting to play in comps were about 90 100 110, VERY VERY good players were 180 to 200.
The pros were on a different ranking system

You could enter Open comps with no limits on your Grading
But usually there were different comps :
Minor - Gradings up to say 120
Major - Gradings up to say 160 ish
Open - as it says

Within your comp, you would play say 6 matches over 2 days; basically the winners played winners and losers played losers and so it went on.
Importantly, in any single match, you got no advantage or disadvantage whatsoever - the person who p,aged best won.
Your grading went up or down depending on the grading of the player you beat or lost to.


So I think there would always be scope for categories of competition , but with everyone in that category playing off the same "scratch".



Another view
Scrap the handicap system, and leave it up to players to decide what handicap they are willing to give
Lots of history of this happening in golf for centuries