Handicap manipulation - how to address

[PaulMdj]

Agree, but how often does a 5 handicapper shoot mid 40's ?????

But you low guys know the spread of handicaps prior to entry, nobody forces you to enter.

 

[Neilds]

Agree, but how often does a 5 handicapper shoot mid 40's ?????

No idea, I don’t care enough to trawl through the results

 

[bobmac]

But you low guys know the spread of handicaps prior to entry, nobody forces you to enter.

You also get told if you want to win something, go and play in scratch opens at other courses

 

[upsidedown]

What's the level of prizes like in Oz..In NZ it was 20 dollar meat packs

 

[PaulMdj]

You also get told if you want to win something, go and play in scratch opens at other courses

It’s about managing expectations, we have scratch/single figure golfers who won’t enter anything but the Club Champs at the Club and we have some who’ll enter every comp they can, it’s a choice. Some prefer the scratch opens because they are playing with and against similar standard of Golfers, Club handicap comps do not offer that, hence divisions.

I’ve been a member 16 years at my current Club, started on 19, now down to 10.4 and hoping to get lower, never won a singles Comp, never won a 4BBB comp, I keep getting told I’m in the bracket that wins everything.

 

[AussieKB]

What's the level of prizes like in Oz..In NZ it was 20 dollar meat packs

Normal comp day about $100....but the Opens is another matter,
$300 is normal, have seen $400 and also $200.....
depends on the number of entries.

 

[Colin L]

@AussieKB
What are you doing on a golf forum? You're just into 2025 and should be up partying.

Happy New Year

 

[AussieKB]

@AussieKB
What are you doing on a golf forum? You're just into 2025 and should be up partying.

Happy New Year

I live in West OZ, so still over 2 1/2 hours for us......

 

[clubchamp98]

All our monthly medal winners play a medal final and the winner and runner up from all entries (all division winners) win a trophy and voucher.
For various other competitions there is only one trophy winner but the pro shop sweep (we don’t pay competition entry fees) is paid out on divisions. The ‘twos’ pot is all entries.

Unlike a lot of English clubs we have 3 Mens competitions a week and another for Senior men. The ladies have two and the seniors ladies one.

As a senior gent I can play 4 qualifiers a week in addition to any open competitions- of which there are lots for men , ladies, and seniors as well as pairs and scrambles

We’re very similar Sat comp and two midweek plus women have separate one Tuesday.

But the amount of comps just shows how few the single figure golfers are actually winning.
They show in the top ten ,but only one person can win the comp..

I still Havnt got my head around this!

Under UHS it is known that the bonus for excellence evened it up a bit for low men.
But that wasn’t their fault it was just the system.
I get the impression some on here think it was and their getting justice under WHS for the advantage they had in the past!

But nobody has still come up with a reason they would disadvantage the low men in a Brand new system.
This was the chance to even it up for all golfers
Especially new low cappers that didn’t play under the old system.

I get there probably no system that suits all.
But why disadvantage the very players that strive to get better.

 

[clubchamp98]

But you low guys know the spread of handicaps prior to entry, nobody forces you to enter.

At my club if you don’t play in the comp Saturday you Don’t get to play.!
So £1500 pa not to play in the comp.

 

[KenL]

At my club if you don’t play in the comp Saturday you Don’t get to play.!
So £1500 pa not to play in the comp.

Is that every Saturday across the year?

 

[PaulMdj]

At my club if you don’t play in the comp Saturday you Don’t get to play.!
So £1500 pa not to play in the comp.

So you have a choice, enter a comp with by sheer amount of higher handicaps playing you could shoot the lights out and so could one of them.

Or just enter to play under competition conditions and hope to improve your handicap.

I totally agree, said it before, that WHS has taken away the advantage UHS gave them, but even under the UHS a low handicapper was still up against it.

Initially we had 2 or 3 of our team players indicating that they weren’t going to play comps as they had little chance of winning, it was pointed out that 40% of all comp fees go to pay for Team meals, Uniforms and refreshment during the matches (chocolate/fruit/water/pop).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Re the winning…I tend to take the view that as golf is in general, and winning in particular, pretty random - with my golf being exemplary of the former, I consider the winning of it to be as the latter…pretty random.

I play to play the best I can…and if the random stuff goes my way then I might have a chance of winning, but whether I do or not is down to how the hand of fate deals the cards to the other competitors. In certain more challenging weather conditions I find that the golfing gods tend to add a little weight to the lower handicappers side of the scales…other times less so.

If I consider winning just one of many outcomes to a random play, then I am pleased when I do...when I do not I simply look how well I did against my own personal objective for the round of golf..and indeed sometimes that is nothing directly to do with how well I played to my handicap or how many stableford points I scored.

It is very, very rare for me to play winningly well but to not win and as a result to feel cheated. If I ever do I will simply reflect that I have no right to win anything in golf, and if and when i do I should just stop and be grateful to the golfing gods and to a maker who continues to enable me to walk and swing a golf club.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

So you have a choice, enter a comp with by sheer amount of higher handicaps playing you could shoot the lights out and so could one of them.

Or just enter to play under competition conditions and hope to improve your handicap.

I totally agree, said it before, that WHS has taken away the advantage UHS gave them, but even under the UHS a low handicapper was still up against it.

Initially we had 2 or 3 of our team players indicating that they weren’t going to play comps as they had little chance of winning, it was pointed out that 40% of all comp fees go to pay for Team meals, Uniforms and refreshment during the matches (chocolate/fruit/water/pop).

But was more realistically going to up their nice little vanity handicap, with no chance of winning
A true say 3 handicapper should be well capable of shooting a 41 or better every now a then

 

[rulefan]

Initially we had 2 or 3 of our team players indicating that they weren’t going to play comps as they had little chance of winning, it was pointed out that 40% of all comp fees go to pay for Team meals, Uniforms and refreshment during the matches (chocolate/fruit/water/pop).

As an aside we had a similar problem pre WHS. A number of players dropped out of comps because 'we never win anything'. It was pointed out that all comps fees were used to pay for engraving major trophies, buying replica trophies (no longer done), paying for wine on all tables at the annual presentation, paying the guest speaker/comedian/famous golfer etc and any small surplus as a 'tip' to the pro, (who in those days dealt with entry fees and card checking).

 

[KenL]

But was more realistically going to up their nice little vanity handicap, with no chance of winning
A true say 3 handicapper should be well capable of shooting a 41 or better every now a then

At a course that they are capable, some higher handicapper will be in with 45.

 

[wjemather]

The course I played was in the Country,
Par 72
Scratch 68
Slope 106
Length 5852 meters. 6437 yards
GA Handicap was 4.2
Daily handicap 0

I had 31 points, it was their Yearly Open.
Very tree lined and if you went off it was difficult to find the ball and more difficult to get it back on the fairway,
if you are have been in OZ bush you would know what I am talking about.

It is why I said the System does not work in Country towns, large Country towns is not a problem as the courses are more like the City with watered fairways etc.

Here is another near me that I play on a regular basis, which I love.

Donnybrook Country Club

Par 72
Scratch 70
slope 109
5830 meters (6413 yards)

So if you are 4.2 handicap I would play off a 2 handicap.

Club has had OZ golf out to re rate recently because of a lot of complaints in that the course is harder then the rating of 109, it was raised to this but not my much.

The scratch rating of 70 in my view is the main problem, everyone losing 2 shots, so for me 50% of my handicap and someone on a 20 handicap losing 10%

A lot of theses clubs have noticed a major drop of away players entering there Opens.

But no use complaining to OZ golf as they are our Masters and we are the Serfs.

Low Slope ratings are commonly the result of short courses, big targets (fairways and greens) with few lateral & crossing obstacles and bunkers, and straightforward recovery (sparse trees and low rough) - none of which fits your description.

 

[The Baron]

Some guidance if possible

We have 4 members where it is thought that they are artificially keeping their handicaps high in order to complete (and win) club 4BBB comps and also external Opens (where they have been prolific and won circa 80% where they've entered). It is thought a few of them have a difference of around 10 shots between their PH and ability.

One example below from their EG record..

View attachment 53294

How would be best to address? The last comp they won as a 4 -ball, the entire room jeered them...

I think i'm at the same club, the same 4 people win everything. There must be an algorithm clubs can use to stop this blatant banditry.

 

[rulie]

I think i'm at the same club, the same 4 people win everything. There must be an algorithm clubs can use to stop this blatant banditry.

The “algorithm” is the club’s handicap committee. Other clubs can also refuse their entry in the Opens. Just spread the word.

 

[wjemather]

Agree, but how often does a 5 handicapper shoot mid 40's ?????

But how often does anyone? Very rarely.

I'm a very sub-5 handicap and have shot 40+ points on multiple occasions this year (best was a gross 66 for 43 points and the win; in another comp I got edged out by a fellow 2 handicapper). A couple of other lows at my club are the same; whereas others haven't been close to 40 all year; and it's the same story for higher handicappers.