Handicap manipulation - how to address

[KenL]

The course I played was in the Country,
Par 72
Scratch 68
Slope 106
Length 5852 meters. 6437 yards
GA Handicap was 4.2
Daily handicap 0

I had 31 points, it was their Yearly Open.
Very tree lined and if you went off it was difficult to find the ball and more difficult to get it back on the fairway,
if you are have been in OZ bush you would know what I am talking about.

It is why I said the System does not work in Country towns, large Country towns is not a problem as the courses are more like the City with watered fairways etc.

Recent result at my old course which recently held the WA PGA Championship
Stroke comp
1st off 25 handicap was 61 nett lost 3 shots.
2nd off 14 handicap was 65 nett
3rd off 11 handicap was 65 nett
4th off 7 handicap was 66 nett

124 entries.

What’s the name of the slope 106 course please?

 

[Dunesman]

Every week. There's nothing special about low handicappers - they're just more entitled and make sure everyone hears them complain.

Well, that does lack detail rather, and suggests more prejudiced charicature, which doesnt add much to the debate either.

 

[bobmac]

Well, that does lack detail rather, and suggests more prejudiced charicature, which doesnt add much to the debate either.

I agree.

''I have no chance of winning the stapleford on Saturday because of all the low handicap bandits who win every week'' ....said no-one

 

[Colin L]

Well, that does lack detail rather, and suggests more prejudiced charicature, which doesnt add much to the debate either.

It answered the question asked.

 

[DickInShorts]

This may be simplistic - but at the clubs where you all complain that the competitions are won by low/high handicap players- why don’t you have divisions?

These can be set by the committee to be 2 3 4 or more depending on the average number of entries.

Our men have 3 divisions and our senior men 2.
This gives both high and low handicaps equal chances to win against their ‘group’

 

[wjemather]

When was the last time anyone heard a higher handicap golfer complain about not being able to win a nett comp?

I agree.

''I have no chance of winning the stapleford on Saturday because of all the low handicap bandits who win every week'' ....said no-one

You're adding additional conditions that did not exist in your original question.

 

[KenL]

This may be simplistic - but at the clubs where you all complain that the competitions are won by low/high handicap players- why don’t you have divisions?

These can be set by the committee to be 2 3 4 or more depending on the average number of entries.

Our men have 3 divisions and our senior men 2.
This gives both high and low handicaps equal chances to win against their ‘group’

We have this at mine in the optional sweep, but only one person wins the medal which is for the lowest net score.

 

[bobmac]

You're adding additional conditions that did not exist in your original question.

I was replying to Dunesman's comment...

Nobody is disputing they can win. The point at issue is that they have a lower chance than higher handicappers.

I thought it was obvious as we were comparing high h/cap and low h/caps chances of winning comps.

 

[AussieKB]

What’s the name of the slope 106 course please?

Wundowie

 

[bobmac]

This may be simplistic - but at the clubs where you all complain that the competitions are won by low/high handicap players- why don’t you have divisions?

Because that would be admitting there isn't a level playing field across the range of h/caps

 

[wjemather]

Because that would be admitting there isn't a level playing field across the range of h/caps

This isn't something new or unknown that was created by WHS. It's a fundamental limitation of all handicap systems - one that was probably less apparent to lower handicappers under UHS due to the significant advantage afforded them in small-medium sized fields.
Implementing divisions is simply about being a competent and knowledgable competition committee that recognises that no handicap system can maintain a satisfactory balance of equity in larger fields.

 

[Colin L]

I agree.

''I have no chance of winning the stapleford on Saturday because of all the low handicap bandits who win every week'' ....said no-one

Well, I for one would enter it knowing there was scant chance of my winning if there were low handicappers in the field but would never even think of them as bandits never mind call them that. The reality is that a higher handicapper's day in the sun with a remarkably low net score comes seldom if ever. I have had one in in my golfing life and that was over 30 years ago. Net 64, won a club trophy, got 4 strokes knocked off my handicap and took years and years for it to climb back to a realistic level. But there are a lot of more us around than there are low single figure handicappers and so the frequency of exceptional net scores from high handicappers should be greater than their equivalent from the low handicappers.

In practice, the sensible approach is to dish out the prizes by divisions.

 

[bobmac]

But there are a lot of more us around than there are low single figure handicappers and so the frequency of exceptional net scores from high handicappers should be greater than their equivalent from the low handicappers.

I know and that is the problem.
There are more chances of someone having that special day.
And if a low h/cap has a special day, the chances are, he/she will walk away with nothing

 

[clubchamp98]

This may be simplistic - but at the clubs where you all complain that the competitions are won by low/high handicap players- why don’t you have divisions?

These can be set by the committee to be 2 3 4 or more depending on the average number of entries.

Our men have 3 divisions and our senior men 2.
This gives both high and low handicaps equal chances to win against their ‘group’

We do have divisions.
But only one player can win the Competition

 

[DickInShorts]

We do have divisions.
But only one player can win the Competition

All our monthly medal winners play a medal final and the winner and runner up from all entries (all division winners) win a trophy and voucher.
For various other competitions there is only one trophy winner but the pro shop sweep (we don’t pay competition entry fees) is paid out on divisions. The ‘twos’ pot is all entries.

Unlike a lot of English clubs we have 3 Mens competitions a week and another for Senior men. The ladies have two and the seniors ladies one.

As a senior gent I can play 4 qualifiers a week in addition to any open competitions- of which there are lots for men , ladies, and seniors as well as pairs and scrambles

 

[AussieKB]

Wundowie

Here is another near me that I play on a regular basis, which I love.

Donnybrook Country Club

Par 72
Scratch 70
slope 109
5830 meters (6413 yards)

So if you are 4.2 handicap I would play off a 2 handicap.

Club has had OZ golf out to re rate recently because of a lot of complaints in that the course is harder then the rating of 109, it was raised to this but not my much.

The scratch rating of 70 in my view is the main problem, everyone losing 2 shots, so for me 50% of my handicap and someone on a 20 handicap losing 10%

A lot of theses clubs have noticed a major drop of away players entering there Opens.

But no use complaining to OZ golf as they are our Masters and we are the Serfs.

 

[Neilds]

Our last Stableford competition was won by a 5 handicap scoring 40 points- and won by 4 points.
You prove any argument with the right statistics

 

[AussieKB]

Our last Stableford competition was won by a 5 handicap scoring 40 points- and won by 4 points.
You prove any argument with the right statistics

Agree, but how often does a 5 handicapper shoot mid 40's ?????

 

[PaulMdj]

Because that would be admitting there isn't a level playing field across the range of h/caps

Because there isn’t a balanced number of players at each level!

If we have 100 men entering a Ind Handicap Comp, we’ll have approx 20 Golfers playing off 3-9, possibly 5 or 6 below that, so a maximum of 26 Golfers 9 and below.

We have 3 Divisions, upto 9, 10-18, 19 & above.

All Division winners win the same amount.

All 100 have an equal chance of winning, however, there is an increased risk purely based on spread of Handicaps the winner will be in the 10 and above handicap range.

We had Divisions Pre WHS and have them now.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Agree, but how often does a 5 handicapper shoot mid 40's ?????

Likewise, how often does a 5hcpper shoot early 20's? I would suggest probably never, unless its a 9 hole comp.