Greenkeepers and golf

[TommyMorris]

I was wondering what the thoughts of the forum were re the statement

Greenkeepers must play golf to fully understand their job

I personally believe it is a required skill which increases understanding and awareness of their job

Regards
Tommy

 

[MVP]

I think that they should watch it on tv or watch people play i think they can get an understand from watching it

 

[TommyMorris]

There is nothing like getting on a green and putting on it, just too see what it is like.

 

[geronimo]

it would not do any harm but not essential by any means.

A green-keeper's job is like any other job you have to be trained on what works and what does not.

Any green keeper would have learned his trade on a golf course and therefore will know what to do if he does or does not play the game.

 

[Leftie]

Definitely not. That way we might be able to beat them in the annual match. e.g. a 10 h/c flying his tee shot over the trees and onto the green on a 357yd dogleg left! I suppose that in the old days they would have left their sombreros in the equipment shed and used their horses to pull the mowers.

 

[Basher]

No reason why they should play to be honest. As long as they know the general format of the game and be aware of the usual errant shot that's enough.

Lewis Hamilton's pit crew are not F1 drivers but they know how to look after his car!

 

[brendy]

Greenkeepers should play the game, it gives them an idea of whether any changes they carry out will be detrimental to the course. A course years ago had a greenkeeper who loved chucking in new bunkers for the hell of it, they were not in any target areas and were never hit by the weekend golfers. Another course recently had its greens spiked to the point a fourball in front of us lost a pound coin marker for 5 minutes, Being sat in a tractor and cutting grass is one thing but knowing where you can cut it short and where you leave it long to keep the course difficulty needs to be done by someone that appreciates and understands the game.

 

[Basher]

I was led to believe Greenkeepers would have had some form of study and qualification in their chosen profession.
Surely a greenkeeper would not be allowed to create new bunkers and other major changes to the course layout without the changes being first passed by the committee or course manager.

Saying that, I ofeten wonder what percentage of the countries golf committee members actually play golf!

 

[Golfer2112]

Greenkeeping is not about playing golf, it is about maintaining a golf course for others to play on. Therefore I voted "No" in the free and fair democratic process now being conducted on this subject.

 

[tpred]

I was recently told that greenkeeping was a very involved profession taking a long time to learn and become qualified.

It would be nice to know exactly what the training involves.
Perhaps Greenkeeper will add a comment to the questions being asked.

Ive never seen any of the greenkeeping staff at my course actualy playing,but i do know two lads at another course who play off 2 and 3 and they reckon its a job really worth doing.
How nice to be able to get some job satisfaction in the sport you love playing(or at times hate for a few minutes).

 

[Greenkeeper]

Bendy, I will try not to be offended by that post, lets call it naivety. Basher is correct, the protocol that we go through before making changes is quite extreme. We are also highly qualified and this includes architecture, I have studied for 25 years and have a string of qualifications including a degree in sports turf science. And guess what even at my age I am still learning. I think you would be amassed by the complexities of modern day greenkeeping.

Anyhow, this is a very interesting subject. I know a lot of great Course Managers that never play. The best greenkeeper I have ever known never played the game, yet he can prepare a course to the highest standard for the best players in the world with the worlds press & golf fans scrutinizing his course. No one could say he didn’t understand the game he was a genius.
From a personal point of view, I defiantly feel the benefit for playing, not just on my own course but others as well.
The greenkeeping association encourages greenkeepers to play. Being a member gets us courtesy of most clubs throughout Europe, so being a greenkeeper has some perks.

Cheers

 

[Basher]

Nice post Greenkeeper, good explanation.

I certainly knew you guys were well qualified to do your job. A bit further up the scale than large scale gardeners I think.
A good Greenkeeper is a valuable asset to any golf course. I take my hat off to you guys and the job you do. Our courses may not look their best at this time of year but I know the greenkeeper at my course is working hard to get it in pristine condition for next season. Several new tees and improvements to green drainage to name a few improvements ongoing.

 

[brendy]

Greenkeeper, hat post was not meant to be offensive to anyone, my view on an job is that to get the best result that person should have an interest in the end result. During the open etc they invite members of local clubs etc to marshal, to me this is a good idea also as they just know more about how golf works so they can manage a crowd better.
On a similar vane, most traffic cops I know love cars.

These vocations are like nursing the love has to be there or else its just another job.

edit: I think greenkeepers do a stirling job, my posts are not to be seen as anything other than positive

 

[geronimo]

to the members that think a greenkeeper needs to be a golfer to do his job well, what happens when you get a greenkeeper who is bad at golf but thinks he is good.

will he start blaming the course and start to build the course to his game? as most people in any sport with delusions start to blame all but them selves.

 

[brendy]

That wouldnt really happen as a handicap dictates who is good and who needs practice. I wouldnt expect a greenkeeper to be in the top 10% of the clubs golfers, more an understading chap who knows when to carry out certain actions and when not to. Our greenkeeping team is pretty good but I also understand many of them are golfers. That is not to say non golfing greeenkeepers dont know what they are doing, but may be advantageous to further themselves and the course they are working for. One good example of a playing greenkeeper is Jim Eager from Royal Belfast, every aspect of the course is manicured and cared for with the golfer in mind, fast greens might pacify some G/keepers but he has them as fast as augusta's during the summer if not faster as he has proved before, it doesnt stop at the greens though, fairways are carved through the landscape and teeboxes are always perfect.

 

[Parmo]

I know the ex head greenkeeper for Moortown, Leeds and he says the second best course in Leeds is Roundhay municipal, forget Sandmoor, Moor Allerton and the likes the place to be is Roundhay ;-P

 

[Dave3498]

There will be exceptions of course, but by-and-large I think that greenkeepers do benefit from playing the game itself. They get a more detailed knowledge of the playability of the fairways, rough, greens and bunkers by using them themselves. Our own greenkeeper, (Course Manager) is a very good golfer off 1.5, and unfortunately doesn't visit the above mentioned hazards very much lately, but he has been though it all and keeps our course in superb condition.

Slightly off the subject I know, but I do question the need for footbal club managers to be ex-players.

 

[John_Findlay]

Personally, I voted Yes.

On Medal days at our course I discovered that the greenkeeper who often placed the pin positions was actually a 16 year old trainee who had never swung a club. They were placed on slopes/ just over the hardest bunkers/ in impossible positions for a while until the members complained the course was unplayable. No account had been taken of the prevailing wind, either.

Once the head greenkeeper, who did play, started placing them the CSS went down by about 3 shots.

 

[Dave3498]

Good point J_F. Pin positions are something that a player would know more about. I should have mentioned this in my previous reply.

 

[Greenkeeper]

I feel that the fact that he has never swung a club before is irrelevant, the problem was in his lack of greenkeeping experience. A player (no matter how good he is) will never know more about pin positions than an experience greenkeeper.
I agree that playing golf gives greenkeepers a better understanding of the course and how it plays and I will always encourage my staff to play, but it’s not essential. As long as they have an understanding of the game and all this is part of the college syllabus.

Just one more point, for the club championship final, I decided to delegate the pin positions to our Pro. We received more complaints about impossible positions and the course being unplayable than ever before. So much so, I had to change them again for the afternoon round.
On Captains day, I allow the captain to choose the positions and every year we get complaints. It’s not as easy as you think!

This has been an interesting thread, its even been talked about on our greenkeeping forums. Well done Tom.