Great article - and so so true!

[doublebogey7]

Where did the 90% come from?

Match Play Singles Full difference between the handicaps of the players
Foursomes 1/2 difference between combined handicaps of each side
Four-ball Back marker to concede strokes to the other 3 players
(better ball) based on 90% of the difference between the full handicaps
Stroke Play Singles Full handicap
Foursomes 1/2 combined handicap of partners
Four-ball Each partner receives 90% of full handicap
(better ball)
Par/Bogey Singles Full handicap
Foursomes 1/2 combined handicap of partners
Four-ball Each partner receives 90% of full handicap
(better ball)
Stableford Singles Full handicap
Foursomes 1/2 combined handicap of partners
Four-ball Each partner receives 90% of full handicap
(better ball)

However -
Numerous researchers and golfing bodies including the United States Golf Association, English Golf Union and Scottish Golf Union have investigated the relative merits of full versus three-quarters difference in handicap.
All of these independent pieces of research have come to a single conclusion – full difference between the handicaps of the two players is clearly the more equitable allowance.
A Scottish Golf Union survey covering 4000 handicap singles matches showed:

Matches won by lower handicap player
3/4 Diff 61% Full Diff 55%
Matches won by the higher handicap player
3/4 Diff 39% Full Diff 45%

From the above it can be seen that even when conceding full difference the lower handicap player retains an advantage.

It's no use quoting facts they are no longer relevant in today's world.

 

[ManinBlack]

It's going to be even funnier when the 15-20 h/caps start getting stuffed out in the country by the 30-40 h/cap guys.

Golf handicap, the biggest deterrent to ambition

I disagree. Golf is one of the only games where its possible to measure your progress fairly precisely. The ambition to reduce one's handicap is, for a lot of us, all consuming. I'm 73 next month & I'm still trying hard to get back to single figures. Most of the oldies I play with dread going up & are still very competitive. I don't think handicaps have any effect on ambition. The unambitious would be unambitious under any circumstances.

However, Bob, I agree with most of the other things you say. 😊

 

[bobmac]

I disagree. Golf is one of the only games where its possible to measure your progress fairly precisely. The ambition to reduce one's handicap is, for a lot of us, all consuming. I'm 73 next month & I'm still trying hard to get back to single figures. Most of the oldies I play with dread going up & are still very competitive. I don't think handicaps have any effect on ambition. The unambitious would be unambitious under any circumstances.

However, Bob, I agree with most of the other things you say. 😊

I wonder if the younger members who may be new to golf would have the same opinion.

 

[Jacko_G]

It's going to be even funnier when the 15-20 h/caps start getting stuffed out in the country by the 30-40 h/cap guys.

Golf handicap, the biggest deterrent to ambition

And it's going to be even easier for handicap golfers to manipulate their handicap under the new system by looks of it.

Golf is the only sport that rewards mediocrity and laziness by taking away any advantage of wanting to improve.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Where did the 90% come from?
Match Play Singles Full difference between the handicaps of the players

From CONGU - Myths

Numerous researchers and golfing bodies including the United States Golf Association, English Golf Union and Scottish Golf Union have investigated the relative merits of full versus three-quarters difference in handicap.
All of these independent pieces of research have come to a single conclusion – full difference between the handicaps of the two players is clearly the more equitable allowance.
A Scottish Golf Union survey covering 4000 handicap singles matches showed:

Matches won by lower handicap player
3/4 Diff 61% Full Diff 55%
Matches won by the higher handicap player
3/4 Diff 39% Full Diff 45%

From the above it can be seen that even when conceding full difference the lower handicap player retains an advantage.

Stop using facts - you know they are not allowed when people cry about being beaten by a higher handicap

 

[bobmac]

Stop using facts - you know they are not allowed when people cry about being beaten by a higher handicap

I see in your signature you were the scratch knockout champion not the net champion

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I see in your signature you were the scratch knockout champion not the net champion

I was last year yes - have also been Handicap champion in the past And have been beaten by both mid and high handicaps in it

 

[Orikoru]

Where did the 90% come from?
Match Play Singles Full difference between the handicaps of the players

From CONGU - Myths

Numerous researchers and golfing bodies including the United States Golf Association, English Golf Union and Scottish Golf Union have investigated the relative merits of full versus three-quarters difference in handicap.
All of these independent pieces of research have come to a single conclusion – full difference between the handicaps of the two players is clearly the more equitable allowance.
A Scottish Golf Union survey covering 4000 handicap singles matches showed:

Matches won by lower handicap player
3/4 Diff 61% Full Diff 55%
Matches won by the higher handicap player
3/4 Diff 39% Full Diff 45%

From the above it can be seen that even when conceding full difference the lower handicap player retains an advantage.

Is that all based on singles match play though? I would be more interested to see stats for four ball betterball. I think it is fair to have some reduction, because if two 18 handicappers get say, 5 pars each, but they manage to get them all on different holes then they're going to end up with a great team score obviously - so you probably need to account for that eventuality. Perhaps 90% does that, or maybe it should be 85. 75 was probably too low though as it's not going to happen every time.

 

[Foxholer]

Another thread where the obvious is pointed out to crap golfers.

How many other sports reward crap play but giving them an advantage, why bother trying to improve if you can just receive "free" shots off of guys who put in time and effort to improve.

Do bowls give poorer players extra attempts to get close to the bull? Does tennis give 4th and 5th serves? Does darts give crap players 9 darts to get a double??

Nope, nope, nope.

Then don't play handicap competitions! At least not

The stats from around the world indicate that 100% is the appropriate difference. But, as per a previous post, authorities balked at going straight to that value.

And it should be remembered that the handicap is to give both sides an equal 'chance' to win the match.

 

[Slab]

Is that all based on singles match play though? I would be more interested to see stats for four ball betterball. I think it is fair to have some reduction, because if two 18 handicappers get say, 5 pars each, but they manage to get them all on different holes then they're going to end up with a great team score obviously - so you probably need to account for that eventuality. Perhaps 90% does that, or maybe it should be 85. 75 was probably too low though as it's not going to happen every time.

just for devils advocate;

I think it is fair to have some No reduction, because if two 18 5 handicappers get say, 5 pars birdies each, but they manage to get them all on different holes then they're going to end up with a great team score obviously

 

[rulefan]

Is that all based on singles match play though? I would be more interested to see stats for four ball betterball. I think it is fair to have some reduction, because if two 18 handicappers get say, 5 pars each, but they manage to get them all on different holes then they're going to end up with a great team score obviously - so you probably need to account for that eventuality. Perhaps 90% does that, or maybe it should be 85. 75 was probably too low though as it's not going to happen every time.

That is that was why Four ball is 90%. I guess they have redone the stats because BB stroke will be 85% and BB match will be 95% with WHS.
AND individual stroke 95%, while individual match 100%

 

[patricks148]

We don't really have any 4BBB comps, all our club MP is singles, Greensomes and Foursomes. TBH some of these 4BBB comps you see about look an bit of a bandits free for all.

If everyone was honest and got as low as they could it wouldn't be a problem i don't think, its a case that there are people around who think a handicap is to help you win.

 

[rulefan]

And it's going to be even easier for handicap golfers to manipulate their handicap under the new system by looks of it.

Golf is the only sport that rewards mediocrity and laziness by taking away any advantage of wanting to improve.

Tell that to the guy who was cat 1 30 years ago and now can't hit the ball 200+ yards. Probably a larger number than current cat 1s.

 

[Jacko_G]

Then don't play handicap competitions! At least not

The stats from around the world indicate that 100% is the appropriate difference. But, as per a previous post, authorities balked at going straight to that value.

And it should be remembered that the handicap is to give both sides an equal 'chance' to win the match.

Why should someone who hasn't put in hours and hours of dedication and practice be allowed an equal chance to win? I don't get this mentality.

Will a brand new F1 driver be given a 10 lap start?

Will darts give you extra arrows or allow you to stand closer?

 

[Jacko_G]

Tell that to the guy who was cat 1 30 years ago and now can't hit the ball 200+ yards. Probably a larger number than current cat 1s.

And do they effect anything, vanity handicap.is different to lazy golfers who don't want to improve.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

SF player. I played a match two weeks ago - played a bit poorer than my norm. My opponent played a bit poorer than his norm. I was giving him 8 shots. He won 3-1.

But hey ho. I should just have played a little bit better over 15-17 and I suspect that I would have won. Up to me - Down to me.

I have no issue with 90%

 

[Foxholer]

Why should someone who hasn't put in hours and hours of dedication and practice be allowed an equal chance to win? I don't get this mentality.

Will a brand new F1 driver be given a 10 lap start?

Will darts give you extra arrows or allow you to stand closer?

As I posted...Stop playing handicap events then! And to finish the sentence I neglected earlier...At least not 'whole of club' ones. Those divided into streams/categories/divisions might be more appropriate.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why should someone who hasn't put in hours and hours of dedication and practice be allowed an equal chance to win? I don't get this mentality.

Will a brand new F1 driver be given a 10 lap start?

Will darts give you extra arrows or allow you to stand closer?

Why are you trying to compare a professional sport to amatuers who play for fun ?

And if the handicap system treats you that bad then just play scratch golf - but then we know you would prob get thumped regualry

 

[Orikoru]

just for devils advocate;

I think it is fair to have some No reduction, because if two 18 5 handicappers get say, 5 pars birdies each, but they manage to get them all on different holes then they're going to end up with a great team score obviously

I think 5 pars is quite common for an 18 handicapper though, surely more common than 5 birdies for a 5 capper anyway?

 

[duncan mackie]

Why should someone who hasn't put in hours and hours of dedication and practice be allowed an equal chance to win? I don't get this mentality.

Will a brand new F1 driver be given a 10 lap start?

Will darts give you extra arrows or allow you to stand closer?

There are a large number of sports that play to handicap in some way - from snooker to squash, even polo....

All the money is there for those who put in all this work, or plaudits and opportunity for those who choose an elite amateur life. For the rest there's either club, or club handicap golf. For 99% of clubs even the club champion is only that - the biggest fish in that particular pool. Arguably equally meaningless as a representation of worth as any handicap winner.