Great article - and so so true!

[HomerJSimpson]

Don't buy Jacko's argument about it rewarding mediocrity. Many work hard on there games and a large proportion want to be as low as they can be and regularly play in competitions so there handicaps are a fair reflection of their ability. However for many, golf is nothing more than a pastime and they just enter these knockouts to have some fun and play a different format and I doubt many enter with the sole aim of winning it because they are a high handicapper. Of course if the play well it can make a game one sided but by the same token, a high handicapper is equally as likely to play some bad holes (hence their handicap) and winter conditions and there lack of technique playing off wet or muddy lies will be a leveller as well

 

[Jacko_G]

Why are you trying to compare a professional sport to amatuers who play for fun ?

And if the handicap system treats you that bad then just play scratch golf - but then we know you would prob get thumped regualry

And that's to be expected, however why should I expect anything else or expect the sport to make allowances for me not being as good as someone else?

You want to stick amateur, will a new amateur boxer who has never stepped on a ring before be given 6 free punches to start each round?

 

[clubchamp98]

There are a large number of sports that play to handicap in some way - from snooker to squash, even polo....

All the money is there for those who put in all this work, or plaudits and opportunity for those who choose an elite amateur life. For the rest there's either club, or club handicap golf. For 99% of clubs even the club champion is only that - the biggest fish in that particular pool. Arguably equally meaningless as a representation of worth as any handicap winner.

Those other sports you quote though your play is dictated by the quality of the shot your op plays before it’s your turn.
In golf only you play your ball so you can’t be snookered or on the back wall.
It’s one of them!
You can’t please everyone.

 

[Slab]

I think 5 pars is quite common for an 18 handicapper though, surely more common than 5 birdies for a 5 capper anyway?

re bold; Yeah but even if that were true, that wasn't your example that I challenged

You said: 2 x 18 cappers both get 5 pars each and get those pars on different holes in the same round. That's very different odds to a single 18 h/cap player getting 5 random pars in a round

 

[patricks148]

i see there are the usual comments about playing scratch event, i though this was about 4BBB, are there such things as Scratch events for these?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

i see there are the usual comments about playing scratch event, i though this was about 4BBB, are there such things as Scratch events for these?

Nobody is forced to enter either though?
Reading all the posts, the issue is not the format it’s the doubts over peoples handicap.
Facts back up the point it’s not the format, how many genuine players would lose if it went back to 3/4’s?

 

[funkycoldmedina]

It's about inclusivity, it's one of golf's unique strengths over other sports. Why would a pair of 18 handicappers play in an event against a pair of 3 handicappers in a scratch 4bbb? There are plenty of competitions for the better golfers to play in

 

[patricks148]

Nobody is forced to enter either though?
Reading all the posts, the issue is not the format it’s the doubts over peoples handicap.
Facts back up the point it’s not the format, how many genuine players would lose if it went back to 3/4’s?

unfortunatly their are some unscupulous types who are happy to use an untrue reflexion of their playing ability to win and do spoil it for others.

Not really that much of an issue at Nairn, but kings theres muttering on a few and look at those national comps, where the same people win on a reg basis.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And that's to be expected, however why should I expect anything else or expect the sport to make allowances for me not being as good as someone else?

You want to stick amateur, will a new amateur boxer who has never stepped on a ring before be given 6 free punches to start each round?

No - that Amatuer boxer will go into the ring with someone along the same ability

In Sunday league football you play in league systems where you play against people of the same level

A handicap system is what keeps the Amatuer game going - it’s as simple as that , remove it and people wouldn’t bother with comps

It’s a system that allows people to play on a level playing field - people of all abilities to play together and compete together , in a lot of ways it’s unique but for me it’s superbly unique

If you don’t want to be a part of that then play scratch comps

But the handicap system is not to “reward” people who don’t work hard on their game etc - some people regardless of how hard they work will never get down to single figures or even in the teens - but the handicap allows them to compete at best against others even though I doubt they ever win

With all the talk about slow play and dress codes being one of the worst things in golf - you can add handicap snobbery to that as well - it shines through some like a beacon

 

[User20204]

Then again what I took from his post was 'I had a run of being 3 under for 14 holes' which seemed to put the boot firmly on the other foot for a 5 handicapper!

All this talk of 90% I'd have thought you'd have been able to work out the lower handicap players handicap but apparently not.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Hey, us high h/c contribute our entrance fee each week for the low h/c to win. We keep the low boys in new golf balls from their pro shop account .

Joking apart, if people don't want golf to be inclusive, that is fine. Just don't moan when the prize pot drops to 25% of what it used to be. High h/c play comps with the hope of that one win per season. If you effectively turn the comps into a scratch comp then they wont bother playing in them and the winner will only have enough for some Top Flites rather than ProV1's

 

[patricks148]

Hey, us high h/c contribute our entrance fee each week for the low h/c to win. We keep the low boys in new golf balls from their pro shop account .

Joking apart, if people don't want golf to be inclusive, that is fine. Just don't moan when the prize pot drops to 25% of what it used to be. High h/c play comps with the hope of that one win per season. If you effectively turn the comps into a scratch comp then they wont bother playing in them and the winner will only have enough for some Top Flites rather than ProV1's

i see the whole prizes thing as one of the problems, i have little or no interest in a prize fund, i enter comps to get my handicap lower and bragging rights on a silver comp with guys at my club.I would still enter if there was no prize TBH

 

[Jacko_G]

No - that Amatuer boxer will go into the ring with someone along the same ability

In Sunday league football you play in league systems where you play against people of the same level

A handicap system is what keeps the Amatuer game going - it’s as simple as that , remove it and people wouldn’t bother with comps

It’s a system that allows people to play on a level playing field - people of all abilities to play together and compete together , in a lot of ways it’s unique but for me it’s superbly unique

If you don’t want to be a part of that then play scratch comps

But the handicap system is not to “reward” people who don’t work hard on their game etc - some people regardless of how hard they work will never get down to single figures or even in the teens - but the handicap allows them to compete at best against others even though I doubt they ever win

With all the talk about slow play and dress codes being one of the worst things in golf - you can add handicap snobbery to that as well - it shines through some like a beacon

I only play scratch opens.

Why would an amateur boxer only go into the ring with similar abilities if it's an open boxing competition. You need to beat the best to win.

As for amateur football, again nonsense the league rewards the best players and best team. It doesn't half way through the season give the team at the bottom of the league a 2 goal (handicap) start to make it competitive. It's simply a case of improve or get whacked.

Only golf rewards people in this way.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Good weather our Sat am roll-up will usually be won by a higher handicapper and 42-44pts

Bad weather and it will more likely be won by a lower handicapper with 36-40pts.

And no problem with 90%. As a SF handicapper I feel that I should be able to give a higher handicapper a load of shots and still beat him. Where it goes wrong is where the higher handicapper's h/cap is lagging his ability - for whatever his reason - real or manipulated. But that's how it goes.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I only play scratch opens.

Why would an amateur boxer only go into the ring with similar abilities if it's an open boxing competition. You need to beat the best to win.

As for amateur football, again nonsense the league rewards the best players and best team. It doesn't half way through the season give the team at the bottom of the league a 2 goal (handicap) start to make it competitive. It's simply a case of improve or get whacked.

Only golf rewards people in this way.

Boxing is a bad analogy and is in weight divisions and sections, ie Novice comps etc.
If it was handicapped like you suggest it would be a Heavyweight first time amateur fighting a 3 times boxed Flyweight, it doesn’t and could never happen.

I 100% agree with you that more needs to be done about those manipulating handicaps, regardless of comp format.

 

[Foxholer]

I only play scratch opens.
...

Sorted then!

...
Only golf rewards people in this way.

It's not that it 'rewards', so much as 'compensates for' - allowing players of significant differences in ability to have a competitive match. It is, indeed, a unique and beneficial feature of the game - that should be applauded, not castigated!

 

[bobmac]

If you effectively turn the comps into a scratch comp then they wont bother playing in them

How would you feel if you were told ''tough, go somewhere else and play in their h/cap opens'' with all the time and expense that entails.
Beause that's what good players are being told to do.
Lastly, if all the stats say good players still win more comps, why isn't my house full of silverware? (Cat I for 35 years)

Sorted then!

It's not that it 'rewards', so much as 'compensates for' - allowing players of significant differences in ability to have a competitive match. It is, indeed, a unique and beneficial feature of the game - that should be applauded, not castigated!

But often it's not.
I lost count years ago how many times I played well and got stuffed.

 

[Foxholer]

...
But often it's not.
I lost count years ago how many times I played well and got stuffed.

As long as the other player's handicap was 'honest', then they must have played (relatively) better than you. That's because a Golf Handicap is (supposedly and with a couple of caveats) a measure of the golfers actual ability.

Of course, an improving player is likely to be 'dangerous' compared to one with a 'stable' handicap, especially where there's a significant difference in the handicaps.

However, anecdotal incidents, such as yours,simply don't stack up against the actual statistics that Rulefan quoted!

 

[User20204]

I used to be in club that had a net matchplay comp, now that was something I enjoyed playing in. Far more often than not the better player won these matches, think I won the comp at least twice.

 

[drdel]

I play the majority of my golf for fun, fresh air, a bit of exercise and a laugh with mates. My handicap's high for a variety of reason so I mainly enter 'competitions' if they are charity fund raisers. If I win against the a player the group I play with that's fine.

However I never forget that a 'competition' in any activity is fundamentally based on rewarding the 'best' on the day - rewarding me for being useless and penalising the better player is never going to make me feel good. If the winner has invested more time, effort and has more skill then that's what a 'competition' should reveal.