General Play round, 2 people playing, 1 scoring

woofers

Medal Winner
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
922
Visit site
If just telling your mate is acceptable then EG wouldn't have needed to add features on their App such as geolocating both player and attester as well as date stamping and time limits.
The geolocation bit is only there for the player, not the attester. Apparently that is coming, I was hoping the news from yesterday was about attester geolocation rather than ‘cross border’ submissions.
 

Griffsters

Hacker
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Messages
294
Visit site
We lobby'd our England golf rep to get a date / timestamp for scorecard download, that way we can cross reference BRS bookings an additional check. This is now a feature in the reports section on the WHS platform since mid last season.

Geo location just isn't up to the task - a large section of our membership lives within 3Km as the crow flies. We no control over pre registration check for GP rounds at away courses tho - golf is a game of trust, apparently...
 

sunshine

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
5,186
Visit site
How does a person, who does not carry electronic devices, submit a general play score?

I would not be comfortable with the idea that it can not be done without electronic devices.

This is very simple. You need to write a letter to the club secretary at least a day in advance informing your intention to submit a card. The post mark on the envelope provides date evidence of pre-registration. If you like new fangled technology you may be able to send a facsimile (modern people call this a “fax”) which speeds up the process, you could even “fax” the club from home before you set out for the course.
 

Voyager EMH

Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
5,516
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
This is very simple. You need to write a letter to the club secretary at least a day in advance informing your intention to submit a card. The post mark on the envelope provides date evidence of pre-registration. If you like new fangled technology you may be able to send a facsimile (modern people call this a “fax”) which speeds up the process, you could even “fax” the club from home before you set out for the course.
That's all well and good, but what if you don't decide to submit a general play score until you are eating your bacon cob 30 minutes before your tee-time?
If the handicap secretary is in the clubhouse, can you merely inform him of your intention or must the pre-registering be done electronically for it to be valid?
 

YandaB

Newbie
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
1,123
Visit site
If this helps at all, it is from "Guidance on WHS Rules of Handicapping as applied within GB&I"

In GB&I each National Union determines that it is a requirement that all rounds for handicapping purposes, including those for Initial Handicap Award, must be pre-registered either through the computer software or manually. Entering a competition or being named in a draw or a booking system is not in itself pre-registration. Registration must be confirmed on the day itself in the manner prescribed by the club/Committee.

I doubt any club would allow the "manual" method of pre-registration just telling their mate. If a player decided to abandon their round as it was rubbish and didn't want it on their handicap record, then they could easily do so if they just told their mate. There would never be any record of them pre-registering in the first place. Likewise, if they decided to hand the score in after the round, as the score was known and they wanted it on their record, it would be pretty easy to say "I told my mate before the round"
Looking at your second parapgraph of the part in bold (from G2.1a (2) Pre-Registration Prior To Play), it's interesting that it also says in the preceeding section (G2.1a (1) Authorized Formats of Play):

The Handicap Committee may consider a player to have pre-registered their intent to submit an acceptable score for handicapping purposes when playing an authorised format of play in a regular, organised event with other players.

That seems to contradict each other doesn't it?

Both quotes from the latest version (linked).
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
11,566
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
Looking at your second parapgraph of the part in bold (from G2.1a (2) Pre-Registration Prior To Play), it's interesting that it also says in the preceeding section (G2.1a (1) Authorized Formats of Play):

The Handicap Committee may consider a player to have pre-registered their intent to submit an acceptable score for handicapping purposes when playing an authorised format of play in a regular, organised event with other players.

That seems to contradict each other doesn't it?

Both quotes from the latest version (linked).
No, because we were not talking about a regular, organised event. We were talking about a couple of mates going off to play at an away course.
 

YandaB

Newbie
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
1,123
Visit site
No, because we were not talking about a regular, organised event. We were talking about a couple of mates going off to play at an away course.
Sorry, it was just a related query. Is the answer always no, or just no because its not specific to your conversation?
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
11,566
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
Sorry, it was just a related query. Is the answer always no, or just no because its not specific to your conversation?
The bit you highlighted had created lots and lots of discussions in this forum as to how to interpret it.

What is a regular, organised event? In an extremely case, one could say it is 2 mates meeting up every Wednesday for a social round? This made people nervous, who thought they'd be forced to submit scores against their will.

However, there would have to be some sort of record they have registered for the round, and an expectation a score will be submitted. So, we have several fiddles that take place throughout week at our place. The club, and golfers playing them, now understand that playing in those is now deemed an acceptable round for handicap. To make it easy, the club put all those fiddles onto the system, just like they would a club competition.
 

YandaB

Newbie
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
1,123
Visit site
The bit you highlighted had created lots and lots of discussions in this forum as to how to interpret it.

What is a regular, organised event? In an extremely case, one could say it is 2 mates meeting up every Wednesday for a social round? This made people nervous, who thought they'd be forced to submit scores against their will.

However, there would have to be some sort of record they have registered for the round, and an expectation a score will be submitted. So, we have several fiddles that take place throughout week at our place. The club, and golfers playing them, now understand that playing in those is now deemed an acceptable round for handicap. To make it easy, the club put all those fiddles onto the system, just like they would a club competition.
Thank you. Do they then also do something to pre register on the day?
On one hand it says that entering a competition is pre registration and in the other it says that it's not. Hence my confusion.
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
11,566
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
Thank you. Do they then also do something to pre register on the day?
On one hand it says that entering a competition is pre registration and in the other it says that it's not. Hence my confusion.
At my club, not actually sure how it works as I don't play in the fiddles. I know they all turn up, sort themselves into groups (no draw, nor any Booking on howdidido). However, their scores all appear as a competition result afterwards on howdidido.

So, as regular organised events, I believe it is a case that by playing, you've automatically registered for the event. This is recognised by both players and handicap secretary.

However, I'm also not sure how watertight it is? For example, if a player has a bad round doesn't submit their score, do they just vanish into thin air, and no way for handicap sec to look into a penalty score? 🤔
 

Voyager EMH

Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
5,516
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
"Hello Mr Handicap Secretary (and chairman of handicap and comps committee) I'm about to tee off in 20 minutes and I wish to inform you that I am going to submit a general play score. I will give you the signed and dated card later."

Can someone tell me whether or not this is a valid form of pre-registering?
 

Neilds

Assistant Pro
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
3,822
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
How do all these posters who go on about lack of trust when telling your mate you are putting in a card actually manage on the course? Do they have the pro, 3 committee members, some form the County and 4 independent witnesses follow them round for every shot to make sure it is all correct? :ROFLMAO:
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,327
Location
Bristol
Visit site
"Hello Mr Handicap Secretary (and chairman of handicap and comps committee) I'm about to tee off in 20 minutes and I wish to inform you that I am going to submit a general play score. I will give you the signed and dated card later."

Can someone tell me whether or not this is a valid form of pre-registering?
If that method complies with the procedure agreed by your Club Handicap Committee ( a procedure that should have been communicated to you and should be available somewhere accessible for you to read), then yes - if it does not comply with their procedure, then no.
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
11,566
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
How do all these posters who go on about lack of trust when telling your mate you are putting in a card actually manage on the course? Do they have the pro, 3 committee members, some form the County and 4 independent witnesses follow them round for every shot to make sure it is all correct? :ROFLMAO:
I trust all my mates, so I'm happy. But, it doesn't mean there is no need for detailed documents on the Rules of Golf and Rules of Handicapping. In relation to handicapping, I'm aware of many people who have bent the rules in past. Some, outright cheating, others because they actually think they are doing the noble thing, even if it is against the rules.

If somebody on a golf forum asks what the official procedures are, surely it is a good thing to give the official procedures? Not just put a arm around their shoulder, agree that they and their mates are trustworthy, and lie to them by saying they can do as they please :)
 

Voyager EMH

Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
5,516
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
If that method complies with the procedure agreed by your Club Handicap Committee ( a procedure that should have been communicated to you and should be available somewhere accessible for you to read), then yes - if it does not comply with their procedure, then no.
Who will they have made that agreement with?
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
11,566
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
"Hello Mr Handicap Secretary (and chairman of handicap and comps committee) I'm about to tee off in 20 minutes and I wish to inform you that I am going to submit a general play score. I will give you the signed and dated card later."

Can someone tell me whether or not this is a valid form of pre-registering?
D-S gave the proper response.

When I was handicap sec at my old club, and whilst pre-reistration was a bit less advanced, I accepted this. A reasonable amount of golfers contacted me in advance like this.
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
11,566
Location
Lincolnshire
Visit site
Do you mean the committee made a declaration (agreed amongst themselves) rather than an agreement with another body?
Not sure what you are getting at. If the Club Committee allow players to pre register by contacting them directly, then that is up to them. The player will then be recognised as making a formal pre-registration for their round, and a score will be expected by those on Committee.

In that sense, it becomes no different to pre registration on App. Using the App, then the Committee will also expect a score, and they'll get reports to inform them about this.

Some clubs also have a sign in book at pro shop.
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
3,327
Location
Bristol
Visit site
Do you mean the committee made a declaration (agreed amongst themselves) rather than an agreement with another body?
The committee just need a procedure which will satisfy them that a round was pre registered and that they will be able to check if the intention has been fulfilled or not. The exact circumstances will vary from club to club, dependent on Clubhouse opening hours, Pro shop opening, PSI availability, wi-fi connection, phone signal etc. etc. There is a handy EG App that does a lot of work for the Committee, but each club has choice.
 
Top