Farleigh Court Golf Club BANNED me from their driving range today!!

[JustOne]

I am considering writing the the R&A to ask why people can't have lessons from whomever they want, and what gives a pro the right to stop that from happening... if you want to be taught by someone you trust then why shouldn't you be? and maybe something to do with people who simply can't afford lessons with a pro so opt for other avenues also not being 'allowed'. This is oddly sounding like childs play.... we're adults and should be taught by whomever we want to be taught by surely? no? are we naughty kids?

What else should I put?

 

[Slab]

It’s easy to see this from both sides but I think I fall on the side of the business in this case

On one hand we’ve a venture that’s a very generous act of someone giving up their time to teach mates

On the other a venture that devalues the ranges own products with no recompense out with that paid by Joe Public

So what makes me fall on the side of the range?

Sure you can try to describe it as one mate helping another or liking it to a father/son day out but clearly from the posts it’s far more than that just in terms of duration not to mention quality etc (although not sure if OP has actually meet the students out with this venture so describing as mates might be stretching it, although doubtless firm friends afterwards)

I don’t think the money paid for balls etc at the regular rates can be used as justification for not hiring the premises as a tuition centre and then being surprised when told it can’t continue

Maybe it’s not always understood that when we go to a range and buy a bucket or two to hit, that that’s exactly all we’ve bought & for multiple students to meet the same personal coach/teacher is perhaps an arrangement that would require additional arrangement/payment for rental of the premises (perhaps even out of sight of regular patrons)

I can’t just turn up at a dance studio or gym and pay for a day pass then start teaching rumba or kick-boxing to one or more students (even if it’s for free) without expecting the business to have something to say about it!

I can’t pay for a couple of terms at night school then expect to stay on after class to teach pottery or basket weaving (even if it’s for free)

I can’t see Tesco being too chuffed if I buy a pile of cold meat & rolls in-store then start giving away free ham roils in the foyer beside the cafe! (& before it’s said, yes this is exactly what’s happening at the range. You buy the balls etc then give away a couple of hundred pounds worth of tuition)

And it doesn’t really matter to the principle whether these specific individuals would/wouldn’t ever buy a lesson from that particular pro/range. It’s immaterial to the scenario

So if I was the range owner/pro I’d at least want a visiting teacher to act as a professional even if they weren’t
(& I use the word professional to describe the financial aspects of the venture)



Disclaimer: For the record I can neither rumba or kick box, make pottery or weave a basket..., but I can make a decent ham roll

 

[Sweep]

I can - just about - see both sides of the argument, but mostly I think this is really sad. I got into the game when my mate offered to take me to the range and show me what to do. I guess many of us had the same experience. How else do you try the game without shelling out cash? I have returned the favour for beginners, hoping they will catch the bug like I did.
Not long ago I played with a mate who struck the ball really well but, it transpired, had no idea how far he hit each club. So off we went to the range and spent a nice afternoon with him hitting balls and me measuring with my laser and writing it all down for him.
Over the years I have had complete strangers offering advice on the range and also asking me for help.
So when does this go from being OK to breaking some rule?
I think it is really great, admirable in fact, that you are prepared to spend so much time helping your mates. Actually, this is all really for the love of the game. I, like many of us I guess, take great joy in talking about golf, working out how to hit the ball better etc etc. This forum is, in itself, a fine example of this. It is a real shame that commerce has got in the way of what is actually a couple of guys enjoying the game and a man trying to help his mates.

 

[DCB]

Is this still rumbling on....... get over it

 

[Slab]

Is this still rumbling on....... get over it

Are you posting as a moderator that one of the most recently contributed to threads, started on Saturday night, that the OP contributed to late Sunday night, shouldn't be contributed to on a Monday morning!

Or a you just trying to get your post count up!

 

[DCB]

Nope, not posting as a moderator, posting off my own back. Trouble is, it's threads like this that keep you coming back for more

 

[Stuey01]

I am considering writing the the R&A to ask why people can't have lessons from whomever they want, and what gives a pro the right to stop that from happening...

LOL, is this a joke?

 

[la_lucha]

Reading this whole thread I think that it's great that you are doing this JO and to be honest I might get in touch nearer to spring in readyness for the new season. However you are an absolute loon doing this for free. I'd certainly chuck you £50 for helping me out for that many hours.

The way that I see the whole right/wrong thing is like this.

You have a BMW that you want to sell, so you drive it onto your local BMW dealership forecourt and put some numbers in the windscreen.
You become the best salesman BMW has ever seen for one day and exclusively to your own car. You just wouldn't do it. It's that outrageous that you wouldn't even comprehend doing it.

You are doing exactly the same thing at the range where they have a resident pro. You are giving the best lessons that the range has ever seen and taking business away from them. If they had a reputation as the best range around then why wouldn't people drive for two hours for their lessons? Why would they/should they let you carry on doing it?

 

[sydney greenstreet]

See below :smirk:

 

[sydney greenstreet]

LOL, is this a joke?

My thoughts too.

 

[bladeplayer]

LOL, is this a joke?

Why do you ask that ? if someone in your family or a friend or a work friend was thinking of taking up the game and asked you to help out is there any valid reason you cant ?

We all agree, even JO, that taking customers or possible customers off the pro is a no no..

thats not even being questioned , so its not about taking or building a customer base at anyone else's expense ..the people he is helping wouldnt even be at this range if it wasn't for him so actually it has enhanced business instead of deminishing it ..

If i want to teach my kids how to play golf at the range or help a mate who is not a member anywhere, maybe he cant afford lessons or maybe doesnt want to get pro lessons as golf may not be that important to him, why cant i ?

Maybe if i can teach him the basics he wil learn to love the game and then book lessons as a result .

I find some of the answers on here a bit strange , maybe because its JO i dont know .. Now JO has never given me a lesson , ive never met the man , and only know him from on here , we dont often agree on stuff and il admit his knowledge of the game is far superior than mine, but i have to commend him on his willingness to help others and for free to boot ..

When did helping or even TRYING to help others for free become a bad thing?

As for my advice , id check out another range , have a chat with the pro , even refer him to here , tell him/her exactly what was going on and take it from there

 

[bladeplayer]

You are doing exactly the same thing at the range where they have a resident pro. You are giving the best lessons that the range has ever seen and taking business away from them. If they had a reputation as the best range around then why wouldn't people drive for two hours for their lessons? Why would they/should they let you carry on doing it?

How is he taking business away from them? he is bringing a friend who never uses that range or that pro to the range , purchasing balls and food and doing their own thing away down the range ? surely money gained rather than lost ?

Just curious of your opinion if this was his brother from America that was home for the week he was teaching , and he spent all week down the range together , would there then be a problem ? as i say just curious

By the way & for the record i can see why the pro is peeved off , i just dont see how he has broken any rules helping friends thats all

 

[el marko]

I am considering writing the the R&A to ask why people can't have lessons from whomever they want, and what gives a pro the right to stop that from happening... if you want to be taught by someone you trust then why shouldn't you be? and maybe something to do with people who simply can't afford lessons with a pro so opt for other avenues also not being 'allowed'. This is oddly sounding like childs play.... we're adults and should be taught by whomever we want to be taught by surely? no? are we naughty kids?

What else should I put?

Sadly that isnt the point. The point is you are using their land to practice a service which they offer. Its the same deal with teaching people to ski at the snow dome, you're not allowed to teach your friends as this is there primary way of making money.

 

[Stuey01]

Why do you ask that ? if someone in your family or a friend or a work friend was thinking of taking up the game and asked you to help out is there any valid reason you can't

I ask that because what the hell has it got to do with the R&A?!?!

 

[bladeplayer]

I ask that because what the hell has it got to do with the R&A?!?!

Fair enough mate and my apologies if i took your reply up incorrectly , & maybe the R&A is not the correct route & they probably wouldnt get involved anyhow .. but it would be nice to find out off some "powers that be" who ever that may be as to what is wrong with helping others so long as its not incroaching of the resident pro or harming his business ..

I just read frustration in JO comments ,

 

[Airlie_Andy]

I can understand why the pro didn't believe you were doing this for free because it is an unbelievably generous use of your free time and I applaud you for it.

Onto the driving range itself. Ultimately what is its main area of business? Is it a golf school that you can use as a driving range or is it a driving range where you can also get lessons? If it's the former than perhaps you should have to "hire" the bay in order to use it to teach even if you are not charging. If it's the latter than your simply using the facilities for what they are intended for ie paying for balls to hit and work on your game. The fact you are there giving pointers should not make any difference as the purpose of the business is to provide facilities to hit golf balls.

Just my take on it.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Would you say the same if the pupil was a 10 year old son or a wife of the teacher?

Yes, though in all probability i doubt a 10 year old kid would listen to his dad for the5+ hours JO spends there.

"Coaching" on somebody else's property that's cost a good wedge to get up and running whether you charge or not is taking the proverbial imo.

 

[Stuey01]

Fair enough mate and my apologies if i took your reply up incorrectly , & maybe the R&A is not the correct route & they probably wouldnt get involved anyhow .. but it would be nice to find out off some "powers that be" who ever that may be as to what is wrong with helping others so long as its not incroaching of the resident pro or harming his business ..

I just read frustration in JO comments ,

No worries mate.
Just One is a generous dude for sure, I understand the frustration.
But I see the Pro/range owners side of it too and am not surprised they are not supportive of this scenario.

Giving a family member or mate a bit of help with starting out and a few tips here and there is a world away from from a full day of dedicated coaching to an established golfer, which is what this is.

 

[RobertB]

The business model of the range relies on income from three streams; hitting balls, buying stuff and accessing the teaching. They seem to have decided to prioritise one above the others.

I never buy drinks, sweets etc when I go to range - I take my own bottle of fizzy water. Should I be banned? Cost/benefit to range maybe a £1 lost in income on food /visit versus me not coming and buying £16 range ticket once a week. Commercial sense?

The range should have clear T&C. The one I go to has several jobbing Pro's who appear to 'lease' a bay with students buying buckets of balls. That seems sensible. Maximises income all round.

But there should not be a monopoly on who can "teach'. The game should be about accessibility ... getting people started and hooked is key. New starts are maybe more comfortable with a friend showing initial ropes as compared to going to the "Pro".

 

[Slab]

How is he taking business away from them? he is bringing a friend who never uses that range or that pro to the range , purchasing balls and food and doing their own thing away down the range ? surely money gained rather than lost ?

Just curious of your opinion if this was his brother from America that was home for the week he was teaching , and he spent all week down the range together , would there then be a problem ? as i say just curious

By the way & for the record i can see why the pro is peeved off , i just dont see how he has broken any rules helping friends thats all

Bladeplayer you can’t in all honesty compare 'helping a mate' what JO is generously doing

He is running half day/full day extended lessons in meticulous detail with video/stills & training aids for multiple different students and paying nothing for the range facilities he intends to use as a training/teaching venue, with no credit given to the range & in full view of the other range users

Buying a bucket of balls or multiples thereof does not entitle anyone to set up temporary free business at someone else’s range & use it as a training venue to teach golf to a series of ‘mates’ regardless of how far from home it is

JO may value his services as free of charge but that doesn’t make them worthless and he really shouldn’t expect others to value their services/facilities for free just because he does

How would any of us react if one day a week someone did our jobs for nothing just because they loved doing it?