Fairness between Genders in a golf competition.

[Yeomanterry]

A easy going discussion occurred in the our golf lounge with both ladies and gents present. Some really good points were raised by by both genders. Our course competition policy has 28 max handicaps for men and 36 for ladies. The men off the longest tees the whites and the Ladies off their usual standard tees the reds. A number of men around 32 handicap asked why they had to give four shots off for their game when a lady of 32 handicap doesn't. They explained we are all playing off our handicap that levels up our playing abilities for whatever tees we are on so why the difference? the ladies countered with. " It encourages the ladies to play in the "Board Competitons" thereby enhancing the standards of all players in the club. Keeping this thread respectful can i ask both genders how they feel about this?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Extract below


Understanding Mixed/Multi-Tee Events

How do Handicap Allowances and any other adjustments get applied in an 18-hole mixed/multi-tee event?

• The WHS facilitates play between golfers of any gender, ability, or age, as players can compete for the same prize in a competition playing from any rated set of tees.
• When playing in an 18-hole mixed or multi-tee event, whatever the format of play, the first step is for the player to calculate/understand their Course Handicap™.
• Next, the applicable Handicap Allowance for the format of play is applied to the Course Handicap, giving the Playing Handicap™. In most cases this is completed by the competition software that clubs and event organisers utilise. The Playing Handicap only has relevance when determining who wins net score competitions or for calculating strokes received in match play. It plays no part in Handicap Index calculations.
• Next and with the introduction of Course Rating – Par, this has simplified the requirement for equalisation strokes in such scenarios. Taking Stableford and Par/Bogey, the Play to Handicap (P2H) score from any tee is 36 points (or level for Par/Bogey) which means that no additional strokes are required. From a Medal point of view, the P2H is now Level Par so the only equalisation strokes required are to take account of the difference in Par of the tees in play.
• In Four-Ball formats mixed/multi-tee competitions an adjustment is only required to allow for differences in Par for medal Strokeplay format.
• When playing Foursomes/Greensomes when a single ball is in play, Playing Handicaps for each side in Foursomes are 50% of the combined Course Handicaps of the two players concerned and for Greensomes 60% of the Low Course Handicap™ and 40% of the High Course Handicap™. If multiple tees are in use for competition purposes a tee must be chosen to be used for scoring purposes, which is stated in the terms of competition. This means that all partnerships, regardless of which tee they tee off from, will score based on the Par/SI of that single tee. When calculating the Course Handicap of each player, under the Course Rating – Par approach, the par to be used is the par of the tee nominated for scoring. This simplifies things in that no further adjustments will be required, regardless of format.
Which card is used in Mixed Foursomes and Four-Ball formats?

• In Foursomes competitions from mixed tees, the Committee must specify in the Terms of the Competition which single set of tees will determine the Pars and Stroke Index that are to be used. The strong advice is to use the shortest tee – e.g. in a Man/Woman pairing the tee that the Woman plays from should be used. This would also apply when the format is ‘any gender paring’ and pairings of Men or pairings of Women are also permitted within the Terms of Competition.
• In Four-Ball formats from mixed tees, individual players score using the card and Stroke Index appropriate for the tee they are playing from.

 

[IanM]

I took the OP to mean "why the max allowances in a competition are different for men and women." I couldn't see any rational for that in the above extract. (Although I may have missed it)

The whs calculations come up with the Course Handicap, but does it explain why the club invokes different maximum allowances for men and women? Is that just a carry over of the old 28 & 36 max Handicaps?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Read all of that initial reply my god it’s dry but that’s the rules in general. But it does nothing to answer the OP, having been through it like the previous post I cannot fathom anything in it that remotely answers the question either.

I also can't understand the reasoning the club has for limiting handicaps based on the OP! Surely they should just allow everyone to play to the handicap allocated to the they’re just limiting people from playing for a reason I can’t see and annoying their own members which just creates animosity!

 

[rulefan]

Is that just a carry over of the old 28 & 36 max Handicaps?

I reckon so.

 

[Neilds]

Surely it is up to the Competition committee to decide handicap limits? Nothing to do with the rules of golf.

 

[D-S]

I reckon so.

So do I

 

[Hobbit]

The last two clubs I was a member at in the U.K. ran mixed, multi tee competitions every week. I can’t think of a single negative of a club having them. Personally, the biggest plus I witnessed was a mixed 3 ball, one of which was an 85 year old male playing off a tee miles forward making him competitive with everyone else in the comp.

But it’s not the only benefit. The bar afterwards with the mix of genders and ages was exactly what I’d want to experience. Youngsters chatting with granny, sharing their round - wow!

I do hope it’s something that spreads throughout the clubs. Yes, there’s the odd moan but if you look beyond that, 200 players NOT moaning about it.

On the question about handicaps, it seemed to work out fine. I guess, as much anything, it was because it was so frequent all anomalies were balanced out over time.

 

[Orikoru]

If my club is anything to go by, if you set the max women's handicap to 28 you'd be excluding half the field.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Read all of that initial reply my god it’s dry but that’s the rules in general. But it does nothing to answer the OP, having been through it like the previous post I cannot fathom anything in it that remotely answers the question either.

I also can't understand the reasoning the club has for limiting handicaps based on the OP! Surely they should just allow everyone to play to the handicap allocated to the they’re just limiting people from playing for a reason I can’t see and annoying their own members which just creates animosity!

My fault

As for the OP - HC limits set by the club for whatever they want

 

[Slab]

I suspect the use of different max handicap limits is because on average, women have higher handicaps than men, so when a club is trying to pull in entrants to the comp it makes some sense to target both genders a bit more equally by having different max amounts to make the comp inviting to both groups

Once players decide to enter a max handicap comp but have a playing handicap higher than the comp maximums it might seem unfair that a man off xx ‘loses’ x shots while a women off same handicap loses none, but that just means they’ve conveniently forgotten or were unaware why the different limits were set in the first place

 

[Orikoru]

The whs calculations come up with the Course Handicap, but does it explain why the club invokes different maximum allowances for men and women? Is that just a carry over of the old 28 & 36 max Handicaps?

Exactly - it sounds like a fusty and belligerent non-acceptance of the increase in handicap limits that occurred around 7 years ago now. The club needs to move with the times and stop digging their heels into the sand.

 

[Slab]

To add to earlier

If you’re gonna have a mixed comp and if the comp needs to have max handicap then using same maximum for men/women just isn’t gonna work. If you set it at 24 for both then far less women will bother entering, if you set it at 36 for both then far more men will enter. Either way your intended 'mixed comp' really isn’t

Even with the above measure the field will already be heavily weighted to male entrants in terms of numbers, so in order to get women to enter, the comp needs to appeal to the population of women players and setting a 24 cap isn’t going to fly

There may be one or several reasons why the comp needs to be mixed, club Open, corporate gig, lack of dates to hold separate comps, themed/sponsored/couples event etc

 

[rulie]

A easy going discussion occurred in the our golf lounge with both ladies and gents present. Some really good points were raised by by both genders. Our course competition policy has 28 max handicaps for men and 36 for ladies. The men off the longest tees the whites and the Ladies off their usual standard tees the reds. A number of men around 32 handicap asked why they had to give four shots off for their game when a lady of 32 handicap doesn't. They explained we are all playing off our handicap that levels up our playing abilities for whatever tees we are on so why the difference? the ladies countered with. " It encourages the ladies to play in the "Board Competitons" thereby enhancing the standards of all players in the club. Keeping this thread respectful can i ask both genders how they feel about this?

Are you asking about "mixed" events, where men and women compete against each other, or asking about separate men's events and women's events (where the men compete only against the men and the women compete only against the women), ie, two separate competitions?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Are we forgetting that par isn't the same on every hole for men or ladies?
I would say clubs need to encourage women into the game, and keep them playing. Otherwise golf clubs become stale an uninviting to many.

 

[peld]

just tell your club to limit all comps to 18 - that'll sort it out

 

[IanMcC]

If the Competition Committee are daft enough to set limits in the first place, then they should have thought this through before setting them.
The explanation in post 2 only works if the limits are 54 for everyone, like they are supposed to be.
The answer, obviously, is to remove the max Index limits, at least for mixed comps.

 

[louise_a]

At my club women play off the correct handicap in all normal weekly competitions, for boards comps the handicap is capped at 40 but players with a higher handicap can enter, I believe the men cap at 32 but that might have changed.

Personally I do not agree with this, it is my belief that you should not make people play off a false handicap, either stop them entering if their handicap is too high or don't have a limit, it seems that it is a case of we want your entry fee but we don't want you to win.

 

[KenL]

I can understand that handicaps are limited in open comps but not club comps.
Unless, of course, they have a sensible rule about having x competition scores in the last year.

 

[IanM]

I have a small sympathy with the notion of "certain" competitions balloting out high handicappers (if necessary) but if it's a mixed one, the "bar" should be the same!