Don't Pay UK

[bobmac]

Essential for a low carbon energy and UK's energy security!

Still 5 years from opening and at a cost of £22-23bn
And the cost to the customer, £92 per MW hour and rising
Offshore wind is currently £40 per MW hour and falling.

Never mind we can always frack.

 

[bobmac]

 

[RRidges]

Still 5 years from opening and at a cost of £22-23bn
And the cost to the customer, £92 per MW hour and rising
Offshore wind is currently £40 per MW hour and falling.

Never mind we can always frack.

Both (actually, ALL) are the most desirable. Hinkley C life likely to be 60+ years, about 3 times that of wind turbines.
Offshore Wind will become more expensive - as convenient locations become rarer. Likewise Solar, while convenient for many houses is not (yet) workable on an industrial scale in relatively tiny UK. Plenty of Solar farms in Missouri and Kansas though.

 

[PNWokingham]

Still 5 years from opening and at a cost of £22-23bn
And the cost to the customer, £92 per MW hour and rising
Offshore wind is currently £40 per MW hour and falling.

Never mind we can always frack.

2 types of electric supply. Base load - power stations, nuclear and could also include tidal if we had the balls to commit. And small nuclear ractirs will hopefully follow and a far better option than another large Plant. This type of powere can be switched on when needed. Then there is wind and solar, which can be used fully when working (when you preserve the base load), but when not, you need to revert to the base load reliable energy. Wind is good, nice and green, but hopelessly unreliable.

 

[chico]

The UK has the infrastructure forsight of a blind man. This problem has been a long time in the making but funding for renewable energy was cut, not increased.

Wind, tidal, solar and hydro with the proper investment could be suppling cheap energy by now.

And the people who mention that the profits these companies make pay your pensions. That might well be the case but pension funds hold a relatively small share of the UK stock market. As usual all the hedge funds etc will push the narrative that any additional tax is going to cost people their pensions.
One final point do any of these energy companies actually own their own means of production. Does one part if the company pump it out, sell it to themselves and say the wholesale price has sky rocketed but fortunately so have our profits.

 

[SocketRocket]

Civil disobedience becomes effective if very large numbers engage in it. If millions refuse to pay these projected bills then the legal system becomes impossible to operate. A small number of people will be toothless. The French are experts at it.

 

[RRidges]

The UK has the infrastructure forsight of a blind man. This problem has been a long time in the making but funding for renewable energy was cut, not increased.

Wind, tidal, solar and hydro with the proper investment could be suppling cheap energy by now.

And the people who mention that the profits these companies make pay your pensions. That might well be the case but pension funds hold a relatively small share of the UK stock market. As usual all the hedge funds etc will push the narrative that any additional tax is going to cost people their pensions.
One final point do any of these energy companies actually own their own means of production. Does one part if the company pump it out, sell it to themselves and say the wholesale price has sky rocketed but fortunately so have our profits.

Centrica is one that owns development and production companies through provision and subsequent servicing companies. How much intra-company trading goes on, I have no idea, but suspect it's still based on 'market prices'.

 

[bobmac]

The UK has the infrastructure forsight of a blind man. This problem has been a long time in the making but funding for renewable energy was cut, not increased.

You'll have to help me out on that one

''It’s anticipated that the UK’s renewable capacity will increase dramatically over the next decade. Plans are already in action to increase offshore wind’s output from 11 GW to 50 GW by 2030 – helped by a £200 million government cash injection and financial incentives. Meanwhile, solar capacity could grow five-fold from 14 GW to roughly 70 GW in the same period.''

Wind, tidal, solar and hydro with the proper investment could be suppling cheap energy by now.

It is
''renewable energy sources making up 42.8% of the UK’s total electricity generation between October and December 2021.''

Wind is good, nice and green, but hopelessly unreliable.

Really? Have you ever been to the beach when it's not windy?

Agreed, we're always going to need more than just one source of energy to balance the grid but giving fossil fuel companies even more subsidies and tax breaks is in my opinion, not the answer.

And as for fracking, are you serious?

''Fracking companies are likely to be eligible for tax breaks, potentially worth billions, that the government is extending to oil and gas companies to encourage new exploration of fossil fuel resources.''

 

[PNWokingham]

You'll have to help me out on that one

''It’s anticipated that the UK’s renewable capacity will increase dramatically over the next decade. Plans are already in action to increase offshore wind’s output from 11 GW to 50 GW by 2030 – helped by a £200 million government cash injection and financial incentives. Meanwhile, solar capacity could grow five-fold from 14 GW to roughly 70 GW in the same period.''



It is
''renewable energy sources making up 42.8% of the UK’s total electricity generation between October and December 2021.''




Really? Have you ever been to the beach when it's not windy?

Agreed, we're always going to need more than just one source of energy to balance the grid but giving fossil fuel companies even more subsidies and tax breaks is in my opinion, not the answer.

And as for fracking, are you serious?

''Fracking companies are likely to be eligible for tax breaks, potentially worth billions, that the government is extending to oil and gas companies to encourage new exploration of fossil fuel resources.''

yes and yes

as mentioned, i am in favour of offshore wind. It is a great option when the wind is blowing but as you may know, no wind = no power, and that happens often. It is not base load and hence we need a base load security of power that can be turned on to cover 100% of UK needs - if needed - and used to make up the % of what is not being sipplied from renbewables at all times

And with regards to fracking, of course there are tax breaks, it is massive investment, you can write that off tax the same as any business and the government needs to incentivise investment in energy in order to reduce the mess we are in. Maybe ask the Americans if they are in favour of fracking, which has given them energy security and provided huge employment. If it goes ahead in the UK, it should need to pass the local vote to see if the community where it is based is in favour.

 

[rulefan]

It is a great option when the wind is blowing but as you may know, no wind = no power, and that happens often.

It is not base load and hence we need a base load security of power that can be turned on to cover 100% of UK needs - if needed - and used to make up the % of what is not being sipplied from renbewables at all times

How often are off shore wind turbines out of action through lack of wind? I've never seen any stationary but I haven't studied them.

Tidal power could be available all day, every day in the UK.

 

[bobmac]

yes and yes

as mentioned, i am in favour of offshore wind. It is a great option when the wind is blowing but as you may know, no wind = no power, and that happens often.

I don't agree

It is not base load and hence we need a base load security of power that can be turned on to cover 100% of UK needs - if needed - and used to make up the % of what is not being sipplied from renbewables at all times

In case you missed it, here it is again....

Agreed, we're always going to need more than just one source of energy to balance the grid

And with regards to fracking, of course there are tax breaks, it is massive investment, you can write that off tax the same as any business and the government needs to incentivise investment in energy in order to reduce the mess we are in. Maybe ask the Americans if they are in favour of fracking, which has given them energy security and provided huge employment. If it goes ahead in the UK, it should need to pass the local vote to see if the community where it is based is in favour.

So if fracking is a way out of this mess we are in with the problems with Russia, Norway in a drought caused by climate change and our soaring energy costs, your solution is to divert investment away from renewables and find and burn more fossil fuels which makes climate change worse.
And as most of the country is heading for hosepipe bans due to climate change, where are you going to get the millions of gallons of water used in fracking?

 

[SocketRocket]

You'll have to help me out on that one

''It’s anticipated that the UK’s renewable capacity will increase dramatically over the next decade. Plans are already in action to increase offshore wind’s output from 11 GW to 50 GW by 2030 – helped by a £200 million government cash injection and financial incentives. Meanwhile, solar capacity could grow five-fold from 14 GW to roughly 70 GW in the same period.''



It is
''renewable energy sources making up 42.8% of the UK’s total electricity generation between October and December 2021.''




Really? Have you ever been to the beach when it's not windy?

Agreed, we're always going to need more than just one source of energy to balance the grid but giving fossil fuel companies even more subsidies and tax breaks is in my opinion, not the answer.

And as for fracking, are you serious?

''Fracking companies are likely to be eligible for tax breaks, potentially worth billions, that the government is extending to oil and gas companies to encourage new exploration of fossil fuel resources.''

We need to get through the next thirty or so years before nuclear , wind, tidal resources are in place, until then we will have to get by with North Sea oil/gas and fracking. I know it's not ideal but what else is there other than blackouts.

 

[rulefan]

And as most of the country is heading for hosepipe bans due to climate change, where are you going to get the millions of gallons of water used in fracking?

From the sea. Or is salt water of no use in fracking?

 

[Mudball]

me thinks the days of large power infra is behind us, we will see more decenralisation coming thru. It does not mean big projects are going away. We need a grid that supports microgeneration via local solar and dare i say mini nuclear plants. I believe there are projects to test mobile nuclear reactors which could be used to power smaller areas.

personal solar or community based solar power with feed-in tarrifs will radically move power (no pun) from energy comapnies and into the hands of the people. We can get self reliant on leccy very quickly. Little wonder that the Govt went the distance and removed all incentives around personal solar. Now it is uneconomical to retrofit it. They could have put a mandate that all new houses will have solar.. but that is a step too far

 

[SocketRocket]

From the sea. Or is salt water of no use in fracking?

We've had hot dry weather for a few weeks but as normal in this country were talking about national climate disasters. Looks like it's going to get rainy next week and cool down, I wonder if the Jet stream may be returning to it's normal position.

I watched as program last week explaining how climate change heralded the end of the last Ice age. Was that caused by people driving around in cars?

 

[bobmac]

We need to get through the next thirty or so years before nuclear , wind, tidal resources are in place, until then we will have to get by with North Sea oil/gas and fracking. I know it's not ideal but what else is there other than blackouts.

If we are getting by with North Sea oil/gas and fracking, why are we heading towards a catastrophic energy crisis in the next 6 months. And I'd like to know where you get your 30 year time frame from.

From the sea. Or is salt water of no use in fracking?

So you want to transport millions of gallons of sea water in diesel trucks presumably, to the fracking fields which nobody wants due to the increase in earthquakes caused by fracking, just to burn more fossil fuels and worsen the climate.
Brilliant.

In my humble opinion, we need to burn less fossil fuels, not more

 

[rulefan]

If we are getting by with North Sea oil/gas and fracking, why are we heading towards a catastrophic energy crisis in the next 6 months. And I'd like to know where you get your 30 year time frame from.

Is there a real shortage of oil and gas in the ground or under the sea at present?

 

[bobmac]

Is there a real shortage of oil and gas in the ground or under the sea at present?

There must be a shortage of easily accessible oil and gas. Why else would people want to risk creating earthquakes?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And sure enough, and not before time for some, the usual suspects start attacking Martin Lewis. It would be funny were it not all so serious.

 

[PNWokingham]

I don't agree



In case you missed it, here it is again....






So if fracking is a way out of this mess we are in with the problems with Russia, Norway in a drought caused by climate change and our soaring energy costs, your solution is to divert investment away from renewables and find and burn more fossil fuels which makes climate change worse.
And as most of the country is heading for hosepipe bans due to climate change, where are you going to get the millions of gallons of water used in fracking?

Without repeating again and again. Wind is great but you can ot rely on it. You need to have 100% capacity on base load to supplement whatever is working at whatever time from wind, solar etc. How do you propose we manage base load? This is not a question on non base-load wind etc, which no matter what you say is UNRELIABLE. How do you suggest we achieve our 100% capacity in this area?