Don't Pay UK

[PNWokingham]

There must be a shortage of easily accessible oil and gas. Why else would people want to risk creating earthquakes?

There is plenty of domestic oil and gas available but the green agenda has forced against this when in reality is should be part of the green solution over the next 30 years. Hopefully mini nuclear and tidal can come on stream through the 2030s to reduce the need for gas but until then...

 

[bobmac]

Without repeating again and again. Wind is great but you can ot rely on it. You need to have 100% capacity on base load to supplement whatever is working at whatever time from wind, solar etc. How do you propose we manage base load? This is not a question on non base-load wind etc, which no matter what you say is UNRELIABLE. How do you suggest we achieve our 100% capacity in this area?

For the third and last time....

we're always going to need more than just one source of energy to balance the grid

That means I have agreed with you we need a mixture of renewables, nuclear AND fossil fuels to balance the grid, not to mention vehicle to grid.
But the 30 year timescales of change are miles out in my opinion.

 

[PNWokingham]

How often are off shore wind turbines out of action through lack of wind? I've never seen any stationary but I haven't studied them.

Tidal power could be available all day, every day in the UK.

I have not seen stats on wind and offshore is stronger and more reliable than onshore. But unlike tidal it is not totally predictable, and you need predictability. Tidal must be the best solution to increase reliable green energy and we should go gangsters into this today along with small nuclear, while also increasing offshore wind

 

[PNWokingham]

For the third and last time....



That means I have agreed with you we need a mixture of renewables, nuclear AND fossil fuels to balance the grid, not to mention vehicle to grid.
But the 30 year timescales of change are miles out in my opinion.

I am running out of energy! Nuclear we need - agreed. Get Rolls Royce consortium signed off and underway. Even if done now it will likely be 10 years before we start seeing anything working and our other nuclear plants will be closing during this period. Hence even more need for gas. There us still a 20+ year need for fossil fuels in the mix and the lack of them is the route cause of the current issue, along with the nuclear issues. So, back our local fossil options until they are not needed - greener for the UK, better for employment etc. If we had green base load up and running reliably with nuclear and tidal we can wind down carbon as and when these come on stream. But until then.... but we can never rely on wind and solar as....they cannot be relied on, even if offshore wind is quite good. Quite good is not base load reliable

 

[bobmac]

but we can never rely on wind and solar as....they cannot be relied on, even if offshore wind is quite good. Quite good is not base load reliable

For goodness sake, I'm not arguing with you.
Nowhere have I said we can rely on wind and solar.
You think the changes will take 20-30 years, I think it will happen sooner
I'm not going to repeat myself again.
I'm done

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Discussing the future of power generation for the U.K is such a great diversion from the real and present issue and the subject of this thread. Not too surprising though as the real issue is not one that will cause much if any pain for the vast majority on here - I suggest that none of us will be choosing between eating and heating.

So here’s a quick and easy answer to the question of targeting support - the question that those who can decide are struggling with…a £750 grant to every individual or family in receipt of Universal Credit…because by definition there is not one such person or family who will have the wherewithal to cover the increased cost of their power and gas.

Just as was done during the pandemic with the UC £80 a month uplift to all on UC, and a bit like the pretty broadbrush provision of grants to self-employed and SME business.

Sorted ?

 

[PNWokingham]

For goodness sake, I'm not arguing with you.
Nowhere have I said we can rely on wind and solar.
You think the changes will take 20-30 years, I think it will happen sooner
I'm not going to repeat myself again.
I'm done

Last point then. We cannot get nuclear and tidal - if indeed we make the choice to do tidal as it is not even in the mis currently - for at least 10 years and that is the start, maybe another 10 before these can make up for what we are losing in current nuclear and to boost the base load enough for the carbon (hopefully mostly local) to wind down. So for the next 20 years, maybe not 30, the only game in town is carbon related. The choice is do we do it ourselves or risk being a buyer on global markets. The US made the bold move in fracking and I am sure lost people who live there are glad that they did so and can live with the negatives as the positives are far more significant. We are never going to frack to the degree they have but putting it in the mix if the local area approve should be on the agenda.

 

[PNWokingham]

Discussing the future of power generation for the U.K is such a great diversion from the real and present issue and the subject of this thread. Not too surprising though as the real issue is not one that will cause much if any pain for the vast majority on here - I suggest that none of us will be choosing between eating and heating.

So here’s a quick and easy answer to the question of targeting support - the question that those who can decide are struggling with…a £750 grant to every individual or family in receipt of Universal Credit…because by definition there is not one such person or family who will have the wherewithal to cover the increased cost of their power and gas.

Just as was done during the pandemic with the UC £80 a month uplift to all on UC, and a bit like the pretty broadbrush provision of grants to self-employed and SME business.

Sorted ?

I agree with a policy like this although with talk now if 5k price cap, it will likely nit be enough, although better than nothing. Also scrap the green levy and vat on bills

 

[Mudball]

I am running out of energy! Nuclear we need - agreed. Get Rolls Royce consortium signed off and underway. Even if done now it will likely be 10 years before we start seeing anything working and our other nuclear plants will be closing during this period. Hence even more need for gas. There us still a 20+ year need for fossil fuels in the mix and the lack of them is the route cause of the current issue, along with the nuclear issues. So, back our local fossil options until they are not needed - greener for the UK, better for employment etc. If we had green base load up and running reliably with nuclear and tidal we can wind down carbon as and when these come on stream. But until then.... but we can never rely on wind and solar as....they cannot be relied on, even if offshore wind is quite good. Quite good is not base load reliable

I hear windmills kill birds.. must be true, because Trump said it

 

[PJ87]

@bobmac

Very good picture that explains the rises and what could be done

 

[greenone]

Bare in mind even if we stopped burning fossil fuels tomorrow there is still going to be an oil industry. Just about every product you buy that is mass produced has something in it that is made from oil.

 

[rulefan]

I hear windmills kill birds.. must be true, because Trump said it

Must be true that fracking causes earthquakes because he didn't say it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I agree with a policy like this although with talk now if 5k price cap, it will likely nit be enough, although better than nothing. Also scrap the green levy and vat on bills

It’s simple…maybe also add in those households on state pension where no income tax is paid as a result of other income. It’s simple and targets those who will be hardest impacted.

And yes…just heard an hour ago that we could be heading towards £5k price cap next year - and I voiced an expletive - and yet we also hear that nothing came out of a meeting earlier between those who can agree, decide and do to ameliorate the terrible pending state of affairs.

 

[Mudball]

Must be true that fracking causes earthquakes because he didn't say it.

 

[SocketRocket]

It’s simple…maybe also add in those households on state pension where no income tax is paid as a result of other income. It’s simple and targets those who will be hardest impacted.

And yes…just heard an hour ago that we could be heading towards £5k price cap next year - and I voiced an expletive - and yet we also hear that nothing came out of a meeting earlier between those who can agree, decide and do to ameliorate the terrible pending state of affairs.

There are many people who don't draw benefits but are on very low incomes (Retirement pensions etc) who will also be hit extremely hard by these energy increases. I prefer the idea of a low Tariff for households earning below a certain threshold (Say £25K) or maybe those on basic tax rates only.

 

[Mudball]

There are many people who don't draw benefits but are on very low incomes (Retirement pensions etc) who will also be hit extremely hard by these energy increases. I prefer the idea of a low Tariff for households earning below a certain threshold (Say £25K) or maybe those on basic tax rates only.

just because i earn 25.1k and above a threshold, does not mean i can afford a 5k utility bill. i already pay my tax and i need to have utilities the same way as the rest of the population. for far too long, people think 100k earners in London are 'well off' and can afford everything. The reality is 100k Londoner is about the same as a 40k Northern after you factor in all the costs of living in london.

i pay high tax but we should have access to same kind of utilities. my leccy is the same wattage as yours, the gas burns at the same way. I am sorry to disagree but the situation we are in, needs to fix the source (high bills) rather than fix at the receiving end.

 

[PJ87]

just because i earn 25.1k and above a threshold, does not mean i can afford a 5k utility bill. i already pay my tax and i need to have utilities the same way as the rest of the population. for far too long, people think 100k earners in London are 'well off' and can afford everything. The reality is 100k Londoner is about the same as a 40k Northern after you factor in all the costs of living in london.

i pay high tax but we should have access to same kind of utilities. my leccy is the same wattage as yours, the gas burns at the same way. I am sorry to disagree but the situation we are in, needs to fix the source (high bills) rather than fix at the receiving end.

Bit like child benefit in a way where two parents can earn 49k each get full child benefit but if it's 60k for one and 20 for another they don't get a penny of assistance (not saying people should or should not just another example of poorly applied thresholds)

Without London Vs rest of country just add in anyone over the 40% tax threshold doesn't see as much of that "massive" wage when 40% is taken in tax plus 2% NI (plus whatever figure extra it is now 1.5 it was but then went down) that's a fair old chunk gone so if someone is earning 50k in an area with lower cost of living but someone is thrown 60k for same Job in higher cost of living area they will only see half of it and will prob be worse off.

This crisis is scary. So many people are going to suffer it's unreal.

I'm fortunate in my project that it paid off at right time to shield some of the rise and I can ride it out for now. However it is proper frightening how many people won't be able to.

What kind of country talks about "warmth banks" it sounds utterly ridiculous that it could actually come to that

 

[Old Skier]

Discussing the future of power generation for the U.K is such a great diversion from the real and present issue and the subject of this thread. Not too surprising though as the real issue is not one that will cause much if any pain for the vast majority on here - I suggest that none of us will be choosing between eating and heating.

So here’s a quick and easy answer to the question of targeting support - the question that those who can decide are struggling with…a £750 grant to every individual or family in receipt of Universal Credit…because by definition there is not one such person or family who will have the wherewithal to cover the increased cost of their power and gas.

Just as was done during the pandemic with the UC £80 a month uplift to all on UC, and a bit like the pretty broadbrush provision of grants to self-employed and SME business.

Sorted ?

Would rather these grants go straight to the individuals provider than to the individual .

 

[PNWokingham]

The comments show how complicated and hard it is to make a package to ease the pain of the upcoming bills. Whatever is done many will feel hard done by. My company just announces a one of 2k payment to help all under a certain pay level. I was just above. Same will likely happen to whatever is implemented on energy.

 

[Mudball]

Would rather these grants go straight to the individuals provider than to the individual .

I would say yes.. but in a different way.. a 5k utility bill is immoral when oil has fallen. I know everyone has a future hedge but we are in crisis mode. If you are not on UC, a 5k will bring you into UC.

Instead.. bring the energy price cap back. Anything above for the next 12 months will be funded by all tax payers. This is like quasi nationalisation. When the markets stabilise, raise the cap 10% (or in line with inflation) to pay the debt. Have a windfall tax to fill the debt. I am a shareholder both directly and via pension, but I can take a dividend hit. The companies won’t struggle since they are being paid.

When the Big B event happened we were told that we will be able to do such things and control our bills. Yet while France, Spain and others have done it, we are still ‘holding emergency talks with energy company bosses’ ..