Don't Pay UK

Tashyboy

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Why aren't people demanding that the Government be in charge of Energy, as in Ministry of Power etc as it was. Then the nation had someone to demand action from.
Now, it is morally difficult to demand the government control, in effect run, a privately owned company. In the final analysis the government can say it cannot force the situation.
The Poll tax pressure worked because it was the Government you were( not) paying.😉
Trying to walk a fine line. By stating facts Not political opinion. In 1979, the conservatives under Margaret Thatcher sold a 5% share in BP. That took the governments/ public share in ownership of BP to 49%. it obviously then became a minor shareholder with a view to privatisation of BP. That happened in 1987 ish. The point of privatisation was that as a consumer (Me and you) could shop around for the cheapest deals. That was not just BP/ Energy But water, electricity etc etc. Turned out well didn’t it. 🤬
 
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Trying to walk a fine line. By stating facts Not political opinion. In 1979, the conservatives under Margaret Thatcher sold a 5% share in BP. That took the governments/ public share in ownership of BP to 49%. it obviously then became a minor shareholder with a view to privatisation of BP. That happened in 1987 ish. The point of privatisation was that as a consumer (Me and you) could shop around for the cheapest deals. That was not just BP/ Energy But water, electricity etc etc. Turned out well didn’t it. 🤬
We can't shop around for water.
 
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We can't shop around for water.
Exactly. Nor, in reality, for the others. (BTW, I think Tashy is being a bit sarcy 😀)
But it isn't just about prices.( though that is important). It's about control of utilities vital to the security and vital functionality of a Country. They should not be under the control,of private companies, some of whom are foreign.
 

bobmac

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Profits go down. Dividends go down. Pension fund income goes down. No working contributors to fund. Fund can't pay pension. Skint.
Energy prices went up 57% in April.
Energy companies reported their biggest profits for 14 years. £2.7m per day and shareholders receiving £4Billion
And now they are poised to put their prices up by a further 78% in October.
My energy bill Oct 21 was £83
October 22 will be £262
So you'll forgive me if I don't feel sorry for the obscene profits that are going to be made and therefor increased dividends and pensions.

Skint? I don't think so
 

Tashyboy

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We can't shop around for water.
Swing low and slow nailed it.👍 When “ privatisation “ was sold to the public at the time one of the strong selling points was private sector meant lesser bills and the fact that the taxpayer would not be paying for nationalised company losses. A quick look in Wikipedia shows how many companies were privatised. And how much money we are saving 🤬sarcasm again 😁👍
 

Tashyboy

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Exactly. Nor, in reality, for the others. (BTW, I think Tashy is being a bit sarcy 😀)
But it isn't just about prices.( though that is important). It's about control of utilities vital to the security and vital functionality of a Country. They should not be under the control,of private companies, some of whom are foreign.
The two sentences hits the nail on the head. An example, The coal mine that is creating a lot of discussion in Cumbria produces coal that is important for the steel industry, we don’t have our own supply and once more we are at the mercy of other countries.
 

jim8flog

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And of course annuities rates paid do not vary according as to how the underlying investments perform. If they do well then the insurance company paying the annuity benefits, not the annuient. With current annuity rates, I cannot see how anyone would be better off long term converting their pension fund to one.
Back when I was in the game there was a period when annuity rates were between 10 and 13% the companies must have lost loads on paying those out in the long term. Swings and roundabouts really.

I managed to lock in with a very small pension when they were 8% but inflation in the intervening years has seriously decreased the real long term value of it. My regret was not opting for an increasing annuity but I believed at the time I would not be around long enough to see the benefit (it takes 14 years to break even on a 5% increasing annuity).

Trouble is you reach an age when you must convert the pension to an annuity regardless of the rate (at least that was the rule back when I as doing it). Even then would you lose out in the long term because of the number of years it might be paid if you wait that long.
 
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I can't see this actually happening. It's easy to add your name to an internet petition claiming that you're going to do this and cancel the direct debit, but when it comes to the crunch how many of those people are going to be willing to take the hit to their credit rating and also potentially have a more expensive pre-payment meter fitted when they stop paying their bill? It will be purely a waiting game for the energy companies. They're going to end up getting their money, one way or another, whether that's through those that cancel the direct debit keeping the money aside to pay later or by setting people up on payment plans. Something needs to be done as the current price rises are unsustainable but I don't think that this is what's going to make the change.
 

Tashyboy

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The issue is the size of profit increase during a time when people's energy prices are trebling.
It's fair enough for share holders to receive dividends but not at the expense of families being fleeced.

Do you agree?
The whole point of these companies that are making billions is that “Everyone” benefitted when they were Nationalised. Not only would we now have the cheapest energy bills in Europe. Excess profits would surely mean lower taxes or better services. What we now have is a situation where pensions including mine get dividends to enhance one’s pension yet some folk cannot afford to keep warm through the winter. And that don’t sit right with me.
 
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I can't see this actually happening. It's easy to add your name to an internet petition claiming that you're going to do this and cancel the direct debit, but when it comes to the crunch how many of those people are going to be willing to take the hit to their credit rating and also potentially have a more expensive pre-payment meter fitted when they stop paying their bill? It will be purely a waiting game for the energy companies. They're going to end up getting their money, one way or another, whether that's through those that cancel the direct debit keeping the money aside to pay later or by setting people up on payment plans. Something needs to be done as the current price rises are unsustainable but I don't think that this is what's going to make the change.
Public protest by large numbers tends to be a powerful lobbying force with Governments. There are very large numbers of people who just don't have the money to pay the proposed increases so what do they have to lose. If many millions protest then the energy companies will find it very difficult to do anything.
 
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For many of the poorest in work and on benefits it will be Can’t Pay UK. Why it is that those who just don’t have the wherewithal or any savings can’t get specific directed support I do not know, though I suppose we who are much more fortunate and able to pay, even though it might hurt or require some sacrifice, can all hazard a guess.
 
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For many of the poorest in work and on benefits it will be Can’t Pay UK. Why it is that those who just don’t have the wherewithal or any savings can’t get specific directed support I do not know, though I suppose we who are much more fortunate and able to pay, even though it might hurt or require some sacrifice, can all hazard a guess.
It's not as simple as that H. If it were,how many would claim they had nothing , weren't capable of getting anything, would decide to stop work and put themselves in the qualification zone , to claim your money? etc. . And then you'd have those who don't want or intend to work , expecting those that do work to pay for them become too high a percentage of a society for it to survive! ( you have that now, but making it as easy as you suggest would open the floodgates)
A situation like that is what many , rightly, will not accept: but, unfortunately, that view becomes hardened to , wrongly, tar all with that brush .Even those who are poor or cannot pay their way through no fault of their own.
When that attitude prevails you finish up with a situation where some are expected to work for 40 hours a week in essential jobs for less than a living wage.!
All this polarisation of this question does nothing for a stable society.

This energy crisis is going to embrace many who are working hard and trying their best, because it has gone far beyond reasonable. Many who are just keeping their heads above water are going to be "sunk" by these latest massive increases.
And it's no good taking the" Tebbit" 'Get on yer bike ' attitude. That is unfair.

What worries me is that I have seen (too) many posts on forums which are clearly unsympathetic , saying things like those who are moaning about not being able to manage are still buying takeaways several times a week , etc etc. Yes, there are some like that but they are a minority of the people these unprecedented rises are going to hit.
We are seeing what someone once called the "unacceptable face of capitalism ", but the answer is not giving money to all , willy nilly.
 
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