Backsticks
Assistant Pro
How many times do the Rules of Golf mention mindset ? Is there a two shot penalty for playing a shot with the wrong mindset ?
Course record or otherwise!
- Thread starter 3offTheTee
- Start date
How many times do the Rules of Golf mention mindset ? Is there a two shot penalty for playing a shot with the wrong mindset ?
rulefan
Tour Winner
It's only a 2 stroke penalty in matchplay
moogie
Tour Winner
Colin L
Tour Winner
All of a sudden this thread, interesting as it is in a general way seems to have been triggered by a piece of nonsense. Please tell us we are mistaken. Please reassure us that you don't think a course record can be set with a nett score.
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
Thanks you for yet another condescending comment. Yes I was aware but thanks once again for what you said.
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
My mistake. Apologies
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
Apologies. I have had a bad day. I was thinking if he had played off +3 rather than +4. Elementary My dear Moogie!
Colin L
Tour Winner
I must be having a bad day as well. I still haven't a clue what you mean.
No condescension intended - just bewilderment.
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
I made a mistake Sir. I am human and have apologised. Let me say that this is a Golf Forum and everybody is not as well versed with The Rules as you.
It is not the first time recently you have attempted to belittle me but that is your prerogativ. I have no intention of going back and giving examples but what I have said is factual
Backache
Assistant Pro
Think it can be disqualification if the committee is so minded.
Maybe not such an egregious sin as putting the wrong handicap number out of the many that we appear to have these days but certainly deserving of punitive punishment 'pour encourager les autres.'
Colin L
Tour Winner
Easy on, I've no wish or intention to belittle anyone and I'm sorry if anything I've said has come across that way. In this instance, I genuinely did not understand what you were saying about +3s and +4s. Still don't, but no matter. And, by the way, that stuff about "please tell us ...." was meant to be hunorous. Didnae work, though, dd it?
Edit: I've looked through my posts back to August and all I can see is a bit of an explosion about implying someone was cheating. The post to which that must have been a response has, however, disappeared and so I couldn't check to see why I replied in that way or whether I had misunderstood something. I do get pretty uptight about the way assertions of cheating are too often made in forums with scant evidence. It goes against my sense of justice and provokes a reaction. I see impatience and exasperation in my response to whatever had been said but there was no intention to belittle.
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
…and I only mentioned ‘mindset’ as being all could think of that would give rise to the R&A recommendation mentioned that course records be based on Medal scoring rather than Stableford.
The only other outside really stretching it reason I could think of was a greater risk (as perceived by the R&A) in a Stableford round of towards the end of the round putting down a score for an early hole that had been a pick-up blob NR with all that was remaining being a tap-in. With marker comment…’well you’d never have missed it so given you’re on for a possible course record we’ll put it down as a…’
Yes I know, but why else the R&A recommendation.
The only other outside really stretching it reason I could think of was a greater risk (as perceived by the R&A) in a Stableford round of towards the end of the round putting down a score for an early hole that had been a pick-up blob NR with all that was remaining being a tap-in. With marker comment…’well you’d never have missed it so given you’re on for a possible course record we’ll put it down as a…’
Yes I know, but why else the R&A recommendation.
chellie
Tour Winner
Why would a marker put down score when the player had picked up and NR'd the hole?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Collusion.
Say the player blobbed the 1st and picked up his ball with it hanging on the lip. Player goes on to play out of his skin and players decide to change the NR to the score for the NRd hole if player had in fact tapped it in. It’s cheating…of course it is…but the player couldn’t have missed the tap in so why not.
In a medal round it would be a lot harder to change an NR as there would have to be a lot of assumptions made about what the player might have scored…and I suggest that just isn’t going to be done.
It‘s only my fanciful conjecture on R&A logic behind recommendation.
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Swango1980
Well-known member
Surely it just comes down to player integrity. If you don't accept a course record due to the potential of this type of scenario, you are effectively saying you think there is a chance of this type of dishonesty amongst any player who shoots a record score.
chellie
Tour Winner
4LEX
Well-known member
You can if a club so decides. I am intrigued by the "mindset and outlook" argument. If a player comes in with a record breaking score in a medal, do we asses their mindset and outlook before recognising it as a new record? Do we examine their thinking with regard to whether a particular stroke was risky or played cautiously? The only difference between medal play and stableford is the system of scoring to determine the winner. In terms of a gross score in a fully holed out round, there is none. It makes no sense to me to be evaluating individual strokes with regard to the mindset of the player when making them.
If it were the case that it is somehow "easier" to get a low score in a stableford as opposed to a medal, it would show in a higher proportion of low scores returned and a number of players who equalled or bettered a course record without recognition. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't - but it's academic. We'll never know and the sky won't fall down as a result of not knowing.
I'm still unconvinced, but it's one thing having an argument in an internet forum, and quite another challenging your own club's practice. I will be keeping schtum in that forum.
No self respecting or top class golf club would allow a course record to be from a Stableford event. Some might disagree but that's my take on it.
Obviously mindset and outlook is intangible and impossible to measure. You just have to apply common sense to it. On any shot in a Stableford you know whatever happens it won't be a card wrecker as at worst it's a blob. In a medal it's a different issue and literally every single shot counts.
Without any research I would bet the average winning scores from Stablefords are lower than the average winning scores from medals.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I don‘t think collusion around modifying a Stableford NR is very likely either, but as you scoffed why do you think that the R&A recommend medal round scores and not Stableford scored - as it’s all I can come up with that isn’t ‘mindset’.
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
The original question was about whether a stableford score could be a course record. This was answered by Rulefan.There was nothing against mindset and I think for somebody playing off +4 mindset is irrelevant.
chellie
Tour Winner
A course record should be from its championship tees.
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