Course record or otherwise!

Swango1980

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I would have difficulty in arguing with those conditions but if he hasn't holed out in all 18 and/or hasn't recorded his actual gross on each hole - no record
Is that not just a given? Presumably the clues record is being awarded for the players gross score, not their Stableford points.

It is unlikely the player blobbed any hole anyway, and so would have had to have therefore holed out on all 18 holes. If they did blob a hole, then I think we could all agree it is no course record, as there is no gross score.

Btw. Reminds me of my old club, who posted the course record at the club by the no. of points someone scored. Some 20+ handicapper score 50 points, and held the course record. We had to explain that this was not really appropriate, and might look a bit silly, as it was displayed in a glass cabinet by the clubhouse entrance
 

evemccc

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What about if a course record score was achieved in a general play round (being recorded for HCAP), not a club comp, but every hole was putted out?

I understand it is not, but theoretically, why wouldn’t that be allowed?
 

Colin L

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What about if a course record score was achieved in a general play round (being recorded for HCAP), not a club comp, but every hole was putted out?

I understand it is not, but theoretically, why wouldn’t that be allowed?
It could be if a club so decided but I couldn't imagine any club doing so for the very reason that the score wasn't achieved in a competition. Few if any would disagree that there is a significant difference between competing and turning in a general play score when you're out for a casual game with your mates.
 
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evemccc

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It could be if a club so decided but I couldn't imagine any club doing so for the very reason that the score wasn't achieved in a competition. Few if any would disagree that there is a significant difference between competing and turning in a general play score when you're out for a casual game with your mates.
I understand and agree there is a difference -

IMO it also strikes at the point of a general play round being suitable for putting cards in for h/cap purposes —
That is, if general play rounds are deemed to be not ‘serious golf’, therefore not suitable for a potential course record, then why is it suitable for putting cards at all, which affect h/cap and comps?
 

Swango1980

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It could be if a club so decided but I couldn't imagine any club doing so for the very reason that the score wasn't achieved in a competition. Few if any would disagree that there is a significant difference between competing and turning in a general play score when you're out for a casual game with your mates.
I agree with this, although it's an uncomfortable thought when you give this reason for not allowing it to be a course record, yet some will claim either round is valid for handicap, as it makes little to no difference.
 

Backsticks

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Why?

Surely you go out with the intention of completing each hole in as few strokes as possible....irrespective of format?

Further....and to be fair I'm probably going to appear disrespectful here towards handicap golfers....the sort of golfers who are likely to be setting course records for a gross score, are not likely to worry about where they get strokes in a Stableford comp, so probably adopt exactly the same strategy when playing a hole in medal as they do in Stableford.

Note: I posted the above before going back and reading post #16



If it wasn't holed then the player hasn't got a gross score for 18 holes irrespective of what happens afterwards in the round.
Its a qualifying round. Every golfer accepts their responsibility that they must make an honest effort to make their best score on every hole.
 

Crow

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It’s all I can come up with.

Plus it protects from a course record being set for a Stableford scored round that started normally, with maybe a tap-in pick-up early on, but as the round progressed into an absolute cracker the pick-up was overlooked and a score put down - it was only a 2” tap-in after all…what‘s the big deal…we know what some golfers are like.
A person who would do that in a Stableford comp is just as likely to do it in a medal comp.
 
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Why?

Surely you go out with the intention of completing each hole in as few strokes as possible....irrespective of format?

Further....and to be fair I'm probably going to appear disrespectful here towards handicap golfers....the sort of golfers who are likely to be setting course records for a gross score, are not likely to worry about where they get strokes in a Stableford comp, so probably adopt exactly the same strategy when playing a hole in medal as they do in Stableford.

Note: I posted the above before going back and reading post #16



If it wasn't holed then the player hasn't got a gross score for 18 holes irrespective of what happens afterwards in the round.
On first - different mindset between when playing Stableford and when playing Medal is all I could come up with…When playing Stableford personally I’ll take more risk playing the shot for a point as missing has no further consequence.

Then a further thought came…just because I pick up a tap-in as I am blobbing the hole and don’t write down a gross for the hole, that does not mean I cannot collude with my marker and other playing companions if I subsequently look to have a record breaking round to write in what my score for the hole would have been had I not picked up. Unlikely? Sure. Possible? Yes. In medal that could not happen, changing an NR would have even the worst cheats doubting their actions.
 

4LEX

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You can't have a Stableford comp counting for a course record. Totally different mindset and outlook compared to a medal.

How many Club Championships are played with the Stableford format? Zero. Theres a reason for that..
 

Colin L

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You can't have a Stableford comp counting for a course record. Totally different mindset and outlook compared to a medal.

How many Club Championships are played with the Stableford format? Zero. Theres a reason for that..
You can if a club so decides. I am intrigued by the "mindset and outlook" argument. If a player comes in with a record breaking score in a medal, do we asses their mindset and outlook before recognising it as a new record? Do we examine their thinking with regard to whether a particular stroke was risky or played cautiously? The only difference between medal play and stableford is the system of scoring to determine the winner. In terms of a gross score in a fully holed out round, there is none. It makes no sense to me to be evaluating individual strokes with regard to the mindset of the player when making them.

If it were the case that it is somehow "easier" to get a low score in a stableford as opposed to a medal, it would show in a higher proportion of low scores returned and a number of players who equalled or bettered a course record without recognition. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't - but it's academic. We'll never know and the sky won't fall down as a result of not knowing.

I'm still unconvinced, but it's one thing having an argument in an internet forum, and quite another challenging your own club's practice. I will be keeping schtum in that forum. :)
 

Smiffy

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The guy in question plays off +3. At that standard I think Stableford or Medal is irrelevant. He played the back 9 in 28, 8 under par. Do not think his mindset came into the equation.
He still lost on countback to a 42 handicapper though.
That's the tragedy.
:eek::eek::eek:;)
 
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If you go round a course in, say, 63 shots - including putting it into the hole on 18 occasions - then you've gone round in 63 shots. I accept the 'in competition' rationale and I also accept the 'course set up properly' rationale for course records. But you've gone round in 63. Regardless of whether the competition is medal or stableford, the committee (should?) check whether the gross score per hole is correct, and will know that you went round in 63 shots. If 63 is the record, then so be it. What your mindset was, is neither here nor there. And whether you might have been able to pick up is irrelevant. If you didn't, you didn't and your gross score is still 63. (If you did, you don't have a valid gross 18 hole score anyway). IMHO.
 

Swango1980

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You can't have a Stableford comp counting for a course record. Totally different mindset and outlook compared to a medal.

How many Club Championships are played with the Stableford format? Zero. Theres a reason for that..
If course record must also be based on mindset, surely the specific competition should count as well. Club champs, fine. But, what about some random end of season monthly medal, not a board competition. If the player in question is a bit more relaxed about this comp, should their score count? And what about a big board comp that is Stableford. Would this not add more pressure to a players mindset than the monthly medal, and therefore be more deserving of a course record than the monthly medal.

Surely mindset shouldn't really come into it, otherwise there are many more issues to consider than format. The course record is simply a record that tells us the lowest number of strokes a player made in holing the ball 18 times, in an official competition.
 
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A lot of the guys at my club only ever record gross score for each hole - whether it’s a medal or stableford.
“ I let the computer work out the points” is the most common reason.

I’m pretty sure golfers in the range of +5 to -5 handicap don’t think about where they get or lose shots in a Stableford and just keep an “ am I under or over par at this point” thought in their heads.

Any stroke play score in a competition should count in my opinion
 
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On first - different mindset between when playing Stableford and when playing Medal is all I could come up with…When playing Stableford personally I’ll take more risk playing the shot for a point as missing has no further consequence.
Thats a fair enough point....on reflection I realise that I don't think like that and I've always got my "gross score" in the back of my mind and play to achieve the best gross I can, rather than trying to be a bit more aggressive with say a 10 footer for a point.
 

clubchamp98

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Yes it is imo.
Stableford is only a method of scoring you are still asked to mark your GROSS score in the correct place on your card.
Shots are irrelevant as this lad was giving them to the course not reviving them.
 

Whereditgo

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Thats a fair enough point....on reflection I realise that I don't think like that and I've always got my "gross score" in the back of my mind and play to achieve the best gross I can, rather than trying to be a bit more aggressive with say a 10 footer for a point.
My initial thoughts were that it should definitely count as a course record, the total number of strokes taken is still the total number of strokes taken. However, as a handicap golfer if I had a putt of say 20 foot for a point in Stableford, I would be more aggressive with the stroke than if I had a 20 footer in a stroke play round where I would be more concerned with proximity to the hole and, while hoping it dropped, I would be trying to ensure a miss left a short next putt. Perhaps a scratch or better golfer would have a different mindset on that 20 footer irrespective of whether they were playing Stableford or stroke play?

Having said that, I still think it should count as the course record.
 

Voyager EMH

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Blimey. I remember conversations like this from 45 years ago.
I've not read all the above so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.
Early in the round, before any thought of course record is in the player's mind, he has to get down in two for one point from a seriously difficult and dangerous position. In a medal he goes for a safe option and takes three to get down. In a stableford it makes more sense to go for the very risky option as it matters not whether the risk costs him 4, 5 or 6 shots.
So from a purists point of view it should be a medal to remove the possibility of the "stableford factor" of influence in the decision making process regarding strategy of shots played.
Way back then, stableford was regarded as a bit of a nonsense by most players who had any inkling towards scoring course records. "Not counting some of your bad shots, that's a game for numpties isn't it?" was a fairly typical remark.
After the event, the player has done what he/she has done and completed the course in that many shots. Course record, in my view.
I just wish my club, and others, would have fewer stableford comps. Your score for 18 holes is your golf score. That is the proper approach to golf, I believe.
I like stablefords - they can be fun - but I would prefer to play more proper golf when it comes to board comps.
 

rulie

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Ironically the guy who "broke the course record" on Wednesday had a 64 today.

He was playing off +4 against +3 on Wednesday. If he had not played on Wednesday he MAY have shot the Course record today as he would only have been playing off +3!
What difference does playing off +3 or +4 make to a gross score?
 
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