Cost of Annual Membership at your Club

[sunshine]

Why do you think that the members set the club green fees...? Bizarre.

And if you think that people don't play top courses 'on principle' then dream on.

Most of the tops courses are owned by the members (not all, e.g. places like Turnberry and Gleneagles). The members vote to appoint a Board to make decisions such as setting green fees. The Board is made up of members of the club.

 

[sunshine]

I’m stunned you think that! Tbh some other golfers I know said the same thing — yet such an assertion doesn’t pass muster when you examine the way that most of these clubs have massively hiked rates between 50-100% or more since Covid.

They weren’t cheap before then, but now they’re very overpriced. The strange thing is that there seem to be LOADS of tee times available at many (but not all) top clubs, especially off season.

Yet still they hike their rates.

Just like Biden, I called this coat of greed. And that’s what it is. Greed. These profiteering price hikes have been covered in the media on a few occasions, not just relating to golf I might add.

1. You need to look at a resort course and see the margins they are making. Have they increased? Are resorts using inflation to price gouge? I don't know, maybe they are, which could be greed, but costs have increased massively and I doubt the owners are making huge amounts of money from golf.

2. Then you need to look at a private members club and ask the same question. Have subs increased significantly? Probably. Have green fees increased by a greater margin to ease the burden on subs? Probably. Is this greed? I don't think so.

3. Then you need to look at the outliers who don't follow the models above. Eg St Andrews. I will agree with you that the increases at St Andrews look like greed.

 

[doublebogey7]

1. You need to look at a resort course and see the margins they are making. Have they increased? Are resorts using inflation to price gouge? I don't know, maybe they are, which could be greed, but costs have increased massively and I doubt the owners are making huge amounts of money from golf.

2. Then you need to look at a private members club and ask the same question. Have subs increased significantly? Probably. Have green fees increased by a greater margin to ease the burden on subs? Probably. Is this greed? I don't think so.

3. Then you need to look at the outliers who don't follow the models above. Eg St Andrews. I will agree with you that the increases at St Andrews look like greed.

St Andrews Links Trust suffered huge losses during COVID and are likely using the opportunity to get their r serves back to where they were pre COVID. In any case they are non profit making organisation, so who exactly would be reaping the benefits of any supposed greed. In the end we are free to choose, if we feel a course is over priced nobody is forcing us to stump up.

 

[D-S]

If the costs of membership at an average club had increased at the same rate that green fees have been raised at top courses over the past 5 years or so, there woud have been a massive drop in participation.
Luckily they haven’t, they tend to have followed similar much lower inflation levels. The costs of running a top course versus an average one have increased at the same rate - green fees have been raised at totally different rates.
The justification is that they can, not that they have to.

 

[sunshine]

If the costs of membership at an average club had increased at the same rate that green fees have been raised at top courses over the past 5 years or so, there woud have been a massive drop in participation.
Luckily they haven’t, they tend to have followed similar much lower inflation levels. The costs of running a top course versus an average one have increased at the same rate - green fees have been raised at totally different rates.
The justification is that they can, not that they have to.

Excellent point. I think many clubs would argue that they have hiked the green fees to keep the subs more affordable and so retain members, which is primary source of revenue. I don't really see this as greed.

 

[sunshine]

St Andrews Links Trust suffered huge losses during COVID and are likely using the opportunity to get their r serves back to where they were pre COVID. In any case they are non profit making organisation, so who exactly would be reaping the benefits of any supposed greed. In the end we are free to choose, if we feel a course is over priced nobody is forcing us to stump up.

I don't have any visibility of the links trust but your comments are very sensible. I'm speculating that the people on the links trust (who are representatives of the clubs playing the courses) are happy to maximise green fee revenue in order to keep subscriptions very low for local residents. I'm assuming these people are also local residents.

I imagine that a summer green fee on the old course will soon exceed annual membership for local residents.

 

[doublebogey7]

I don't have any visibility of the links trust but your comments are very sensible. I'm speculating that the people on the links trust (who are representatives of the clubs playing the courses) are happy to maximise green fee revenue in order to keep subscriptions very low for local residents. I'm assuming these people are also local residents.

I imagine that a summer green fee on the old course will soon exceed annual membership for local residents.

Just looked and the five day residents ticket is already cheaper than a round on the old course for the rest of us.

 

[Jimaroid]

I'm speculating that the people on the links trust (who are representatives of the clubs playing the courses)

I’m in danger of constantly repeating myself around financial difficulties that the links trust face in order to recover losses. But on this point, it’s an incorrect assumption, and it’s surprising how little sway local clubs have with the Links trust. The trustees are mostly R&A, Fife councillors and MPs. There is a local club representative committee that meets with the trust periodically and, I hear, the same issues are often discussed: the general lack of tee times, visitor numbers and fees.

St Andrews is a unique place with unique problems. I don’t think it’s as simple as looking at resident prices as the cost of property in the area of town that qualifies is ludicrous and you still need to pay club fees in addition.

The simple fact is it’s getting expensive to play the best courses no matter what.

 

[doublebogey7]

I’m in danger of constantly repeating myself around financial difficulties that the links trust face in order to recover losses. But on this point, it’s an incorrect assumption, and it’s surprising how little sway local clubs have with the Links trust. The trustees are mostly R&A, Fife councillors and MPs. There is a local club representative committee that meets with the trust periodically and, I hear, the same issues are often discussed: the general lack of tee times, visitor numbers and fees.

St Andrews is a unique place with unique problems. I don’t think it’s as simple as looking at resident prices as the cost of property in the area of town that qualifies is ludicrous and you still need to pay club fees in addition.

The simple fact is it’s getting expensive to play the best courses no matter what.

Out of interest, how much are club fee's likely to be, wouldn't have expected very much given they have no course to maintain.

 

[Jimaroid]

Out of interest, how much are club fee's likely to be, wouldn't have expected very much given they have no course to maintain.

Varies, I’m around £400 a year when I include lockers and parking. Plus joining fees.

It still good value all in bit there are all sorts of inconveniences that come with the privilege. It’s unlike the club golf most people are familiar with, you have to be prepared to play at inconvenient times or just not at all.

 

[doublebogey7]

Varies, I’m around £400 a year when I include lockers and parking. Plus joining fees.

It still good value all in bit there are all sorts of inconveniences that come with the privilege. It’s unlike the club golf most people are familiar with, you have to be prepared to play at inconvenient times or just not at all.

I assume that is a private members club, seems pretty steep to me and surprised you have to pay to park whne parking at all the courses is free.

 

[Jimaroid]

I assume that is a private members club, seems pretty steep to me and surprised you have to pay to park whne parking at all the courses is free.

Yep, it’s easier to think of all the town clubs as private members clubs where some members happen to play golf sometimes. Golf is certainly what unites us but there are many members who are only there for the hospitality.

 

[sunshine]

I’m in danger of constantly repeating myself around financial difficulties that the links trust face in order to recover losses. But on this point, it’s an incorrect assumption, and it’s surprising how little sway local clubs have with the Links trust. The trustees are mostly R&A, Fife councillors and MPs. There is a local club representative committee that meets with the trust periodically and, I hear, the same issues are often discussed: the general lack of tee times, visitor numbers and fees.

St Andrews is a unique place with unique problems. I don’t think it’s as simple as looking at resident prices as the cost of property in the area of town that qualifies is ludicrous and you still need to pay club fees in addition.

The simple fact is it’s getting expensive to play the best courses no matter what.

Still crazy that annual subs are comparable with a visitor green fee. The trustees clearly have an enormous bias. No wonder they are suffering financial difficulties

 

[simsini]

16% increase here from April 2024.

 

[D-S]

16% increase here from April 2024.

Where's that? Also how much did it go up last year?

 

[simsini]

Where's that? Also how much did it go up last year?

Bearsted. There was no increase last year.