Club V Country, more fuel to the fire.....

[chrisd]

Unless that player has handed in an official document stating he has retired hence why Ribery won't be playing for France and there is nothing Platini can do about it

The fact a country would believe they have a priority over the club that employ the player is the kind of arrogance that will ensure England will continue to face problems.

I don't think that it is arrogance, the FA are clearly running national football and clearly do have priority over the players - the FA run football from grass roots to the national team and so far the Premier League haven't challenged their dominance.

 

[chrisd]

so lets see the grand plan

Homer, how can their be a "master plan" when Phil would allow every manager to dictate a called up players training, whether and where he plays, and even if he gets released for a game. Add to that, many less games and you end up with no point in playing international matches.

As you say, rugby players all give priority to the national squad as do cricket, hockey, netball, table tennis, and pretty well every major team sport in the country and, before you say it I know that the circumstances vary between all the sports but I still say that playing any sport,wearing your countries badge is the pinnacle that anyone can achieve and finally, let's be honest, a foreign manager isn't going to be concerned about an England team doing well

 

[richy]

Homer, how can their be a "master plan" when Phil would allow every manager to dictate a called up players training, whether and where he plays, and even if he gets released for a game. Add to that, many less games and you end up with no point in playing international matches.

As you say, rugby players all give priority to the national squad as do cricket, hockey, netball, table tennis, and pretty well every major team sport in the country and, before you say it I know that the circumstances vary between all the sports but I still say that playing any sport,wearing your countries badge is the pinnacle that anyone can achieve and finally, let's be honest, a foreign manager isn't going to be concerned about an England team doing well

Correct!!

Most players have no loyalty to a club but all will to their own nation, unless you're Diego Costa

 

[chrisd]

Correct!!

Most players have no loyalty to a club but all will to their own nation, unless you're Diego Costa

Yep, you have to chuckle, they score a goal and kiss the badge, then clear off for a few extra quid a week as soon as!

 

[MadAdey]

I am not against the England team getting together and having friendly games, as they need to get new players comfortable with being expected to go and play with people they do not know and do not train with day in day out. England playing games and players is not the issue that has risen from this situation.

Rogers has not tried to stop any player going away on international breaks, but he just wants them to follow the recommendations of the physios and coaches that work week in week out with these players, that have developed specific training regimes for certain players to prevent known reoccurring injuries from happening.

we have see it a few times where club managers have prevented players going away due to an injury concern, by claiming they are not fit to play. Are other PL managers now going to be less likely to allow a player with a niggling injury join up with the national team, as they will be concerned it will only end up worse. Sturridge looks like being fit by the next international break, is Rogers going to declare him fit enough to play, is he heck.

 

[richy]

I am not against the England team getting together and having friendly games, as they need to get new players comfortable with being expected to go and play with people they do not know and do not train with day in day out. England playing games and players is not the issue that has risen from this situation.

Rogers has not tried to stop any player going away on international breaks, but he just wants them to follow the recommendations of the physios and coaches that work week in week out with these players, that have developed specific training regimes for certain players to prevent known reoccurring injuries from happening.

we have see it a few times where club managers have prevented players going away due to an injury concern, by claiming they are not fit to play. Are other PL managers now going to be less likely to allow a player with a niggling injury join up with the national team, as they will be concerned it will only end up worse. Sturridge looks like being fit by the next international break, is Rogers going to declare him fit enough to play, is he heck.

I bet he gets called up. Whether he gets a start or not is another matter

 

[Pin-seeker]

I am not against the England team getting together and having friendly games, as they need to get new players comfortable with being expected to go and play with people they do not know and do not train with day in day out. England playing games and players is not the issue that has risen from this situation.

Rogers has not tried to stop any player going away on international breaks, but he just wants them to follow the recommendations of the physios and coaches that work week in week out with these players, that have developed specific training regimes for certain players to prevent known reoccurring injuries from happening.

we have see it a few times where club managers have prevented players going away due to an injury concern, by claiming they are not fit to play. Are other PL managers now going to be less likely to allow a player with a niggling injury join up with the national team, as they will be concerned it will only end up worse. Sturridge looks like being fit by the next international break, is Rogers going to declare him fit enough to play, is he heck.

Brenda lost one player due to injury,he needs to get over it,it happens.
He signed 2 more strikers pre season so should be well equipped.

 

[Jack_bfc]

Just heard him whinging again on motd!

He needs to put his dummy back in and get on with it!

 

[Foxholer]

They need a full restructuring

Things may need to change, but 'full restructuring' isn't necessary imo. And it's obviously happening to other countries too.

They also need to have every single representitive team play the same way right from under 15's to full Imternational

This I would strongly disagree with - unless 'the same' means 'EVERY'! That way players can more easily adapt to the style chosen to harness the strengths, or particular approach, of any particular team.

 

[Liverbirdie]

You know, I'm sure there's something that connects the 2 posters Liverpoolphil and liverbirdie who were very upset with my post, when we are taking about a Liverpool player. What could it be........ . no, I can't quite place it.

Anyway, they made their point and I'm sure they would be as vociferous if we were talking of say Rooney, or Kompany, as we all know football fans are very fair and not myopic when it comes to their teams.

Still bugging me what the connection is.....

Maybe two people have a correct point, I don't see a riposte as to why you think all players train the same. Obfuscation maybe?

We aren't moaning about players getting injured on international duty, per se. It is when we feel that our players are being trained negligently, and Sturridge was played when injured on his previous international duty, and Hodgson admitted to this and to testing Sturridge'S resolve on that occasion. So twice this has happened. Would you be happy if this was with your own clubs players -I suggest not. Go on be honest.

BTW one of the top people at the FA (David Gill), was at Man U when Fergie was pressuring players to not play in friendlies. Are people happy with that. I,ll help you with your letters of complaint....

Dear Top echelon of the FA man,

How to you feel about being a poacher turned gamekeeper..............

 

[chrisd]

Maybe two people have a correct point, I don't see a riposte as to why you think all players train the same. Obfuscation maybe?

We aren't moaning about players getting injured on international duty, per se. It is when we feel that our players are being trained negligently, and Sturridge was played when injured on his previous international duty, and Hodgson admitted to this and to testing Sturridge'S resolve on that occasion. So twice this has happened. Would you be happy if this was with your own clubs players -I suggest not. Go on be honest.

BTW one of the top people at the FA (David Gill), was at Man U when Fergie was pressuring players to not play in friendlies. Are people happy with that. I,ll help you with your letters of complaint....

Dear Top echelon of the FA man,

How to you feel about being a poacher turned gamekeeper..............

My position on the matter is clear - playing for your country is the greatest honour a footballer can achieve and it is country before club.

I don't care who pays the wages, the country has the right to pick whoever they choose, and they are obliged the play, the Africans insist on PL players leaving to play in their tournament and that's mid season and games don't get cancelled as in England fixtures.

Training is important for individuals and maybe England need to look at how players shedules are mapped out but the lack of co-operation between managers and the national set ups don't help either

 

[Liverbirdie]

My position on the matter is clear - playing for your country is the greatest honour a footballer can achieve and it is country before club.

I don't care who pays the wages, the country has the right to pick whoever they choose, and they are obliged the play, the Africans insist on PL players leaving to play in their tournament and that's mid season and games don't get cancelled as in England fixtures.

Training is important for individuals and maybe England need to look at how players shedules are mapped out but the lack of co-operation between managers and the national set ups don't help either

I know your stance Chris, don't feel the same myself.

How do you feel about Gill then?

 

[MadAdey]

My position on the matter is clear - playing for your country is the greatest honour a footballer can achieve and it is country before club.

I agree that players do have an obligation to play and should be proud to do it.

I don't care who pays the wages, the country has the right to pick whoever they choose, and they are obliged the play, the Africans insist on PL players leaving to play in their tournament and that's mid season and games don't get cancelled as in England fixtures.

But at the end of the day it is the clubs that actually invest the money and pay the extortionate wages. It is not the FA that invests the time and money into training and development of these players, that get them to the standard to play at an I nternational level.

Training is important for individuals and maybe England need to look at how players shedules are mapped out but the lack of co-operation between managers and the national set ups don't help either

this is my gripe with what has happened. Either the Liverpool coaching staff has not made it clear enough, how important the Sturridge training regime is to prevent him from injury, or England just have not taken enough notice. Better communication is required between club and country if specific requirements are needed for certain players.

 

[chrisd]

I know your stance Chris, don't feel the same myself.

How do you feel about Gill then?

What a boring world it would be if we all had the same opinions!

Gill was doing the best job to protect Man U assets, which was his job, and then the same afterwards for the FA, it happens in all types of work that poachers turn gamekeepers and the knowledge learned is usually what makes them good at their job.

My experience of the FA, albeit at a low level, is that they are a bunch of old, unknowledgeable numpties who couldnt run a pee up in a brewery. I went, for my club, to a disciplinary hearing at the Kent FA once, many years ago and one of the head honcho' s was a right ****, a few years later I see that he was on the selection panel to pick the England manager.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Maybe two people have a correct point, I don't see a riposte as to why you think all players train the same. Obfuscation maybe?

We aren't moaning about players getting injured on international duty, per se. It is when we feel that our players are being trained negligently, and Sturridge was played when injured on his previous international duty, and Hodgson admitted to this and to testing Sturridge'S resolve on that occasion. So twice this has happened. Would you be happy if this was with your own clubs players -I suggest not. Go on be honest.

BTW one of the top people at the FA (David Gill), was at Man U when Fergie was pressuring players to not play in friendlies. Are people happy with that. I,ll help you with your letters of complaint....

Dear Top echelon of the FA man,

How to you feel about being a poacher turned gamekeeper..............

I think, as with most things, it's a compromise. It's as silly to have 22 different training regimes in an international squad as it is for every single person to do exactly the same thing. And whilst I believe that the FA are not the most progressive organisation when it comes to some things, I would have thought that their training facilities and expertise they have on hand when it comes to conditioning and training players is second to none. But I may be wrong.

And as for it happening to my players then chance would be a fine thing as I support a team in the conference/skrill/vanoramadingdong league or whatever it is called. So getting international call ups is not a huge issue. The players are more likely to miss matches as they've got a post round to complete.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I think, as with most things, it's a compromise. It's as silly to have 22 different training regimes in an international squad as it is for every single person to do exactly the same thing. And whilst I believe that the FA are not the most progressive organisation when it comes to some things, I would have thought that their training facilities and expertise they have on hand when it comes to conditioning and training players is second to none. But I may be wrong.

And as for it happening to my players then chance would be a fine thing as I support a team in the conference/skrill/vanoramadingdong league or whatever it is called. So getting international call ups is not a huge issue. The players are more likely to miss matches as they've got a post round to complete.

Yes, compromise is the way forward.

Injuries are part and parcel of football, and the players are more like finally tuned rolls royces than Skoda octavias nowadays (Luis Suarez aside), who as Rogers said needed to train everyday. He had an unbelievable fitness record. Maybe that was the reason he went round biting people, so he could have a rest. Ok clutching at straws there.

It is negligence and carelessness that the clubs have a right to complain about. I'm not privy to the communications, or lack of, so can only guess at, but Hodgson, as stated has had previous with Sturridge, so wouldn't be surprised. Asking an injured player to play to test his "resolve" is very careless.

Overall, Sturridge was out for the Swiss game and Villa game. One didn't harm England in the end, but the other potentially harmed Liverpool, we'll never know.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I never will understand the pompous and jingoistic attitude that players have a "duty" to play for their country.

Football is still supposed to be a sport not some form of military service and when a player is selected to play for his country it is an invitation which he should be able, if he wishes, to decline.

He is not employed by the FA and, therefore, has no obligation to them.

International football is now, in any event, an anachronism and the World Cup no longer represents the pinnacle of the game.

Sadly it continues to attract, in England's case at least, some of the least desirable supporters with their nationalistic rather than patriotic songs and chants.

Personally there is nothing I would miss if all international football stopped tomorrow. Certainly would put an end to this debate.

 

[Jack_bfc]

That's a very sad view of events. Usually saved for football fans from the prem who have euro football to watch as well as the prem..

As a lower league football fan for most of my life I have had some wonderful moments and trips around Europe watching England and will not apologise for it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I never will understand the pompous and jingoistic attitude that players have a "duty" to play for their country.

Football is still supposed to be a sport not some form of military service and when a player is selected to play for his country it is an invitation which he should be able, if he wishes, to decline.

He is not employed by the FA and, therefore, has no obligation to them.

International football is now, in any event, an anachronism and the World Cup no longer represents the pinnacle of the game.

Sadly it continues to attract, in England's case at least, some of the least desirable supporters with their nationalistic rather than patriotic songs and chants.

Personally there is nothing I would miss if all international football stopped tomorrow. Certainly would put an end to this debate.

Don't think it needs to go

Just needs to change

Less matches throughout the season for a start

Reduce the qualify - since the break of Eastern European countries the amount of teams has dramatically increased and believe a lot of the minnows should have to pre qualify first to reduce the amount of games

The relationship between the FA and the Prem needs a massive improvement

The FA needs to get rid of businessmen at the top - some bloke who looked after the BBC isn't the man to change football

Bring in ex players like Southgate , Linekar , Shearer , Scholes , Bruce , even Terry and Lampard or the ladies manager

Get a Director of Football with a football background into the FA as it's head - get rid of the suit yes men and the old fossils whose ideas and tactics are decades behind.

At the early years create regional performance centres , get more people qualified as coaches .

Look at the blueprints created by Spain and Germany and Ajax and Barce etc over ten years ago

England the FA need a major attitude adjustment to realise that they are no longer a football super power at international level

 

[Pin-seeker]

Overall, Sturridge was out for the Swiss game and Villa game. One didn't harm England in the end, but the other potentially harmed Liverpool, we'll never know.

But Rogers spent a lot of money strengthening the squad,he bought 2 new strikers & they still have Borini. So surely he can't use Sturridge's absence as an excuse for losing against Villa.
He can't expect Sturridge to play every game.