Casual water moving the ball

[Imurg]

To my mind we're over thinking this....

The ball was on the fairway...
It rained and a stream of water carried the ball into a Water Hazard.
Water is not an outside influence according to the rules - just like wind.
So the ball is taken to the hazard - it's now in the hazard so proceed as such.
The Rules about picking up a moving ball from water applies in a hazard only.
You can't pick up a moving ball otherwise.

Luck of the draw, Rub of The Green - call it what you will

Th CW shouldn't be there but neither should the twig or rock that causes a ball to bounce badly and end up in a hazard.
It could easily have happened the other way - if the stream had carried the ball THROUGH the hazard then you'd play it as it lies.....

 

[Colin L]

To my mind we're over thinking this....

The ball was on the fairway...
It rained and a stream of water carried the ball into a Water Hazard.
Water is not an outside influence according to the rules - just like wind.
So the ball is taken to the hazard - it's now in the hazard so proceed as such.
The Rules about picking up a moving ball from water applies in a hazard only.
You can't pick up a moving ball otherwise.

Luck of the draw, Rub of The Green - call it what you will

.

Which is where you were in Post #2, where I was in Post #5 and which I am now getting confirmation of.

But the conversation teasing out other possibilities is, for me at any rate, both interesting and helpful in establishing a firmer grasp of the interpretation and application of the rules. I hope it isn't too confusing for the OP who just wanted an answer to the situation he and his friend were in!

 

[Colin L]

OK, the guidance I got was quite clearly that these first responses were correct: the ball may not be stopped in motion and must be be played as it lies when it comes to rest. Our soft-hearted attempts to avoid the player being disadvantaged didn't get any support.

So the next time someone's ball gets carried away in flowing casual water, let's hope he gets a lucky and it ends up in a more favourable position.

 

[duncan mackie]

indeed

I accept that the ball moving in casual water is still a moving ball, and hasn't changed it's status in the way it does when it enters moving water in a water hazard, and that my view that the ball could have been removed from the casual water whilst moving would have been incorrect in this instance.

 

[Hendo007]

Can someone just confirm that if your ball lies in a large puddle in the middle of the fairway and your taking relief from casual water, do you need to mark the position of the ball in the puddle ?

 

[Colin L]

Can someone just confirm that if your ball lies in a large puddle in the middle of the fairway and your taking relief from casual water, do you need to mark the position of the ball in the puddle ?

No you don't. You are only required to mark a ball that you are going to lift and replace i.e. put back in the same place. In this situation you are going to drop your ball in a different place. [Rule 20-1 is your reference]

I'd say it's generally a good idea in relief situations to mark even if it's not required so that you have a reference point, but it's not always going to be practical. For instance, casual water might be too deep or you might not be retrieving your ball from it; you might be deeming a ball under a gorse bush unplayable and be able to pull the ball out with a club but be reluctant to crawl in to mark it.

I think it is a good idea always to leave your ball in place while you weigh up your options just in case the best option turns out to be playing the ball as it lies. (You may have seen a number of players in the Open opting to play from casual water in bunkers either because they wanted to avoid plugging were they to take a free drop or because the nearest point of relief would put them in a worse position.)

 

[Hendo007]

No you don't. You are only required to mark a ball that you are going to lift and replace i.e. put back in the same place. In this situation you are going to drop your ball in a different place. [Rule 20-1 is your reference]

I'd say it's generally a good idea in relief situations to mark even if it's not required so that you have a reference point, but it's not always going to be practical. For instance, casual water might be too deep or you might not be retrieving your ball from it; you might be deeming a ball under a gorse bush unplayable and be able to pull the ball out with a club but be reluctant to crawl in to mark it.

I think it is a good idea always to leave your ball in place while you weigh up your options just in case the best option turns out to be playing the ball as it lies. (You may have seen a number of players in the Open opting to play from casual water in bunkers either because they wanted to avoid plugging were they to take a free drop or because the nearest point of relief would put them in a worse position.)

Thanks, I thought that was the case but couldn't find the reference in the rules to be sure. Cheers

 

[MashieNiblick]

No you don't. You are only required to mark a ball that you are going to lift and replace i.e. put back in the same place. In this situation you are going to drop your ball in a different place. [Rule 20-1 is your reference]

I'd say it's generally a good idea in relief situations to mark even if it's not required so that you have a reference point, but it's not always going to be practical. For instance, casual water might be too deep or you might not be retrieving your ball from it; you might be deeming a ball under a gorse bush unplayable and be able to pull the ball out with a club but be reluctant to crawl in to mark it.

I think it is a good idea always to leave your ball in place while you weigh up your options just in case the best option turns out to be playing the ball as it lies. (You may have seen a number of players in the Open opting to play from casual water in bunkers either because they wanted to avoid plugging were they to take a free drop or because the nearest point of relief would put them in a worse position.)

Agree best to leave the ball and then use a tee or something to mark nearest point of relief so you can check with your fcs/oppos that it is all Ok before lifting the ball.

On Saturday I was in some CW and it wasn't immediately obvious which side npr would be. By leaving the ball where it lay and putting a tee in the ground either side of the CW where the ball would be for me to play my next shot taking full relief, we were able to tell much more easily where the npr was. Then just marked the club length dropping zone from the relevent tee peg, retrieved the ball and Bob's your uncle.