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Bridgestone Balls

Region3 said:
So what is going to happen when an amateur hits the ball with his driver swinging at 83mph?
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I don't doubt your information that you have sourced. I have a swing speed of 90-95 MPH (measured on trackman) I get fantastic results with the pro v1 and my driver. At least 20 yard improvement on my driver compared to my previous NXT tour balls.

I went out last night with a Wilson DX3 and they were a bit different to the PRO V 1, I did notice I did not have the same control on my drives, the ball flight was slightly different but I was still getting there or there about with the distance.

Mike
 
mykweb said:
I don't doubt your information that you have sourced. I have a swing speed of 90-95 MPH (measured on trackman) I get fantastic results with the pro v1 and my driver. At least 20 yard improvement on my driver compared to my previous NXT tour balls.
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The information was from Trackman's own website. If you Google "Trackman PGA Tour data" it's fairly early on the results and is a pdf document.

Obviously you like the ball and it works for you. My 'devil's advocate' point was when you hit your driver, do you want the ball to spin as much as when a pro hits a 7 iron (Trackman data again - 7 iron tour avg = 90mph)?

I think to a degree the ball manufacturers can say what they like, because we (as amateurs) don't hit the ball well enough to be able to disprove them.
 
I get what you are saying and as said above I do not dispute the information sourced.

I am a firm believer in if it works for you then leave it. I only stumbled upon the pro v1 to save me getting tones of smash from a £20 note at my course shop after buying a snack. Bought the pro v1's and hand the best round ever this year.

I think each person has to try and see if it suits them, if not try something else until it works or feels comfortable
 
Region3 said:
The information was from Trackman's own website. If you Google "Trackman PGA Tour data" it's fairly early on the results and is a pdf document.

Obviously you like the ball and it works for you. My 'devil's advocate' point was when you hit your driver, do you want the ball to spin as much as when a pro hits a 7 iron (Trackman data again - 7 iron tour avg = 90mph)?

I think to a degree the ball manufacturers can say what they like, because we (as amateurs) don't hit the ball well enough to be able to disprove them.
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Errr what?
The ball is not going to spin from a driver at 90mph anywhere near what it does from a 7 iron at 90 mph, loft and grooves.
That's a stupid comparison.

To the guy asking about the velocity and fast swing speed. The theory around fitting ball to swing speed is about compressing the ball to get a good spring back effect and help generate good ball speed. The velocity may feel like a rock because of the firmer cover but actually it is a softer compression ball than the prov1, it has a softer core. The prov1 feels softer because it has a softer urethane cover that is designed to help with increased spin off wedges, the grooves grip it and generate more spin.
So a premium ball feels softer (cover) but is actually harder (compression rating)
A distance ball feels harder(cover) but is actually softer (compression).
Confused yet?

The exception is something like the RBZ urethane or the Bridgestone e5, these have softer compression distance ball style cores and also have a soft urethane cover to give good green side spin. For lower swing speed players they are a good option.
Bridgestone Rxs operates on the same theory, but in a premium package, it has a softer core and a urethane cover, but is multi layer, so more expensive than the two piece E5
 
Stuey01 said:
Errr what?
The ball is not going to spin from a driver at 90mph anywhere near what it does from a 7 iron at 90 mph, loft and grooves.
That's a stupid comparison.
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I didn't mean it would have as much spin as a 7 iron, just that I thought balls were designed to react in different ways depending on how hard they were struck.

Am I wrong?
 
Region3 said:
I didn't mean it would have as much spin as a 7 iron, just that I thought balls were designed to react in different ways depending on how hard they were struck.

Am I wrong?
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If that was the case then ball manufactures would rate balls by club speed. E.g you buy balls by speed rating 80-90 90-105 etc...
 
mykweb said:
If that was the case then ball manufactures would rate balls by club speed. E.g you buy balls by speed rating 80-90 90-105 etc...
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Pretty much every premium ball is marketed in the same way. Here's an example from the TM website about the new Lethal ball.

5-Layer Technology promotes optimum spin control off every club.

Optimum spin with a driver is different to optimum spin with a wedge. How does the ball know which club it's being hit with?
 
Region3 said:
Pretty much every premium ball is marketed in the same way. Here's an example from the TM website about the new Lethal ball.

5-Layer Technology promotes optimum spin control off every club.

Optimum spin with a driver is different to optimum spin with a wedge. How does the ball know which club it's being hit with?
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But is that not why your driver has a flat back with no major grooves.

its the grooves that add extra spin to the ball, not the ball itself. A ball can promote extra spinn but not cause it. Yes I know by the laws of physics that the ball will spin when you hit it. But the grooves on a club face increase the spin. That is why the Vokey wedges have the grooves closer together.

Mike
 
mykweb said:
But is that not why your driver has a flat back with no major grooves.

its the grooves that add extra spin to the ball, not the ball itself. A ball can promote extra spinn but not cause it. Yes I know by the laws of physics that the ball will spin when you hit it. But the grooves on a club face increase the spin. That is why the Vokey wedges have the grooves closer together.

Mike
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Grooves do not add spin. Grooves work in the same way that tread on a car tyre does, by preventing unwanted water/grass/mud getting between the clubface and ball (or road and tyre surface).

With a clean ball sitting off the ground on a tee, a driver doesn't need grooves as nothing will get between it and the ball.
 
BTatHome said:
Isn't that what Bridgestone do? They certainly use club head speed to tell users the differences between the RX RXS etc etc.
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But on the box it does not say "this ball is for people who's club head speed is 90-105 mph" Nearly all the ball manufactures all have rubbish on the box about roll, ball flight , how many dimples it has and also how many cores.

Even if you go into AG or DG they do not ask you what swing speed you are before recommending you a ball. They ask what you currently play and recommend the best to try and help you. I know this as I was in AG on Wednesday and was looking for an alternative to the Pro V1 to use in bounce games. At no point did he ask my swing speed. He asked my handicap and what distance I get with my driver. None of that info tells him that my club head speed with my driver is 92-96 MPh.

As said previously, get a sleeve of 3 balls, try them and see how they go. What works for one might not work for the rest.
 
this line has been lifted from this website http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/sports/golf/basics/golf-club3.htm

The grooves on the face of a golf club serve two purposes. First, they provide just a bit of "bite" for the golf ball as it's sliding up the face, helping it to spin more rapidly. Next, if grass is trapped between the ball and club at impact, the water in the grass will be squeezed out by the nearly 3,000 pounds of force generated by the average swing. Like the tread on an automobile tire, the grooves on the club face give the water somewhere to go so that the ball doesn't skid up the face without spinning.
 
If your just going to go by what's on the box then your in trouble. Also if your gonna choose based on what you currently play then its gonna be struggle too.

Sticking 100mph swing speed on a box is not gonna help 90% of customers as they don't know there swing speed.

Check out the manufacturers websites and see the facts.
 
Has any one got on an opinion on the BStone RX vs RXS ? I used the RX for the first time yesterday and thought it was good but perhaps did not have that drop and stop performance I wanted on the short irons and struggled with check on the chips. Will the RXS address these issues? I liked the durability, the callaway hex chrome does all I request but gets a little tatty after a few holes ( too tatty in my opinion for its performance the (I)s was more durable and offered more spin) .. The e5 I may take another look at as well.
 
mykweb said:
But on the box it does not say "this ball is for people who's club head speed is 90-105 mph"
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That's exactly what some manufacturers do. Bridgestone being the most notable but also Srixon. That's what all this debate is about. Titleist have a different stance because they want to sell everyone the prov1 (or x). They say club speed is irrelevant.

So you have different manufacturers making conflicting claims. Who you believe is up to you. Personally I don't think there is a massive difference. But I have a high swing speed so no trouble compressing a ball, so I would not see the alleged ill effects of playing a ball with too high compression.

Where they are all in agreement is that a softer (urethane is the material du jour) cover promotes more spin off lofted clubs.

I can't agree that grooves on lofted clubs don't add spin. That's why there was the whole conforming groove furore. They changed the rules on grooves specifically to reduce wedge spin.
 
mykweb said:
I was in AG on Wednesday and was looking for an alternative to the Pro V1 to use in bounce games. At no point did he ask my swing speed. He asked my handicap and what distance I get with my driver. None of that info tells him that my club head speed with my driver is 92-96 MPh.
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Although smash factor would affect calculations, wouldn't your driver distance give at least some indication as to approximate swing speed? Even if it's broadly <200, <250, <300 ?

I can almost understand them not asking your swing speed as most customers won't know or they open a can of worms that could lead to tying them up for half an hour on the launch monitor in order to make a £15 sale.

Doesn't mean it's right, mind.
 
Stuey01 said:
I can't agree that grooves on lofted clubs don't add spin. That's why there was the whole conforming groove furore. They changed the rules on grooves specifically to reduce wedge spin.
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In my own poor naive misguided way, I thought that they changed the groove rule to prevent so much spin being generated from the rough, because there should be some downside to driving inaccurately. Smaller volume of material missing from clubface = less room for grass/water to be channelled away.

I agree that grooves 'biting' will make a small contribution to spin.

A famous clubmaker made himself a set of irons with no grooves at all. He used them for 3 years, winning tournaments in that time, and maintained a 2 hcp.
 
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