Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[bluewolf]

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

Just a quick trawl, no doubt some of it might be open to some questioning.

Slightly tickled at Dyson being in there tbh.

 

[Hobbit]

Slightly tickled at Dyson being in there tbh.

I must admit after hearing all the flak James Dyson got for moving manufacturing to the Far East it does seem odd that the EU paid for some of it. I think the detail maybe that he got a grant for some of his EU based work but the journey who wrote the article thought it added weight to skew the reporting slightly.

 

[SocketRocket]

I haven't referenced your preferred position at all tbh. I'm not sure what you're reading to suggest that?

From reading your posts, I'd hazard a guess that you'd prefer a good deal but if that wasn't available then you'd gladly accept No Deal in its place.

Unfortunately, I very much doubt that there is a good deal. Or at least not one good enough. There are too many people wanting too many things on either side of the negotiation. There are too many red lines. Too much intransigence. And, unfortunately, on our side of the negotiation, too many snouts in the trough.

I asked as I believed you were suggesting I was happy with job losses and thought leaving without a deal was my preferred option. If that is not correct then I have misread your posts.

 

[Dando]

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.

Just a quick trawl, no doubt some of it might be open to some questioning.

ok, but how have the EU affected UK jobs/manufacturing?

 

[bluewolf]

I asked as I believed you were suggesting I was happy with job losses and thought leaving without a deal was my preferred option. If that is not correct then I have misread your posts.

I can honestly say that I didn't even think that. Never mind write it. My post was aimed squarely at the people who are actively clamouring for a No Deal and accepting that job losses will result. Minford for example.

 

[drdel]

ok, but how have the EU affected UK jobs/manufacturing?

The EU have procurement regulation based on the principles of fair competition!! Governments are banned from subsidising and the UK plays by these rules - unfortunately other members don't.

 

[Dando]

...or her perceived impact of Brexit? Or is this another tall tale?

How long have Canada and South Africa been in the EU? How will the UK leaving (which it won't) stop trade with those countries exactly? Do tell

if in doubt blame brexit!

 

[bluewolf]

if in doubt blame brexit!

See, now this is a bit odd.. I'm struggling a little bit to believe that you don't understand his point..

My Company has put several Significant Investment projects on hold over the last 18 months due to uncertainty over what would happen with a No Deal Brexit. The last Company I worked at completely shelved one major investment project for the same reason. Now then, it very well may be that Britain post Brexit truly is the Land of milk and honey. No one knows. However, the period between the vote and the actualisation of the decision is a time of tremendous uncertainty for many businesses.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

ok, but how have the EU affected UK jobs/manufacturing?

I suppose anyone who lost their jobs in the UK, under the EU free movement rules, could have gone over to Europe and taken the jobs away from the Slovaks, Poles etc etc. Like they do to us Brits?
You never know after a few years the EU might have given grants for the companys to move back to poor UK

 

[Hobbit]

See, now this is a bit odd.. I'm struggling a little bit to believe that you don't understand his point..

My Company has put several Significant Investment projects on hold over the last 18 months due to uncertainty over what would happen with a No Deal Brexit. The last Company I worked at completely shelved one major investment project for the same reason. Now then, it very well may be that Britain post Brexit truly is the Land of milk and honey. No one knows. However, the period between the vote and the actualisation of the decision is a time of tremendous uncertainty for many businesses.

Its not just the freezing/shelving. At the time of the vote the ££ 'v' the €€ was £1 to €1.28. Buying in materials at €1.15 was horrendous. And reporting a dividend that was obviously good in sterling was poor in the Euro.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Apparently we are still wanted;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46918009

 

[Dando]

Apparently we are still wanted;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46918009

It’s our ££££££’s that are still wanted

 

[IanM]

It’s our ££££££’s that are still wanted

Imagine a golf club where less than 20% of the members pay subs, and the others who don't pay still get to play on Saturday Mornings!!

 

[Foxholer]

Changing the subject slightly. Without going into the detail of what Michael Gove said in his address to the house I give him 8 out of 10 on the delivery. Jezza could do well to take some lessons from him 👍

Why so low? Delivery was 9.5+ imo - and I'm definitely not (normally) a Gove fan!

Corbyn is, and imo will always be, a diabolical QT/spontaneous performer - even when he's in a position to really have an impact! And that view is independent of my political views! Yvette Cooper is far superior - and would likely a more successful leader imo.

 

[drdel]

Imagine a golf club where less than 20% of the members pay subs, and the others who don't pay still get to play on Saturday Mornings!!

And where those members get given cash by the self appointed management to go and build their own course(s).

What I don't see from those wishing to stay in the EU is recognition that Brussels tries to redistribute funds to the poorer (under performing?) economies rather inefficiently since the costs of the centre have risen more rapidly in real terms than income! Consequently the UK would be on the hook for more and more cash that will be used to the benefit of our competitors. Now that's a really sensible move for us!!!!!

 

[ColchesterFC]

A friend on Facebook shared the following post from a group called "Vote Leave, East Anglia".........

"All MP'S from all parties should tell the people the truth about the Lisbon Treaty and what will happen if we don't Leave the EU. ..Google it for yourselves. ... !

Read and BELIEVE! If you Have any doubts about leaving the Corrupt EU and its corrupt unelected Beurocrats of Brussels this will make you change your mind to #LEAVEMEANSLEAVE

What will actually happen if we stay in the EU and has already been agreed. Check it out if you wish:

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future what the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons"

Blimey! I haven't fact checked any of the points raised, I have simply copied and pasted it, but if only all the Remain voters had known this information before the referendum. It would have been a landslide for Leave.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

...or her perceived impact of Brexit? Or is this another tall tale?

How long have Canada and South Africa been in the EU? How will the UK leaving (which it won't) stop trade with those countries exactly? Do tell

Her main worry is drop in the value of the £ since Leave won the vote and further devalues as a hard Brexit now seems inevitable.

She relies on fast time deliveries as her franchisees are mainly home based with little storage space. Any delays will be very problematic.
She had good plans in place supported by Scottish Government with help and grants.
Don't understand what Canada and SA not being in the EU has to do with it.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

A friend on Facebook shared the following post from a group called "Vote Leave, East Anglia".........

"All MP'S from all parties should tell the people the truth about the Lisbon Treaty and what will happen if we don't Leave the EU. ..Google it for yourselves. ... !

Read and BELIEVE! If you Have any doubts about leaving the Corrupt EU and its corrupt unelected Beurocrats of Brussels this will make you change your mind to #LEAVEMEANSLEAVE

What will actually happen if we stay in the EU and has already been agreed. Check it out if you wish:

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future what the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons"

Blimey! I haven't fact checked any of the points raised, I have simply copied and pasted it, but if only all the Remain voters had known this information before the referendum. It would have been a landslide for Leave.

Nope 👎

 

[Deleted member 1147]

A friend on Facebook shared the following post from a group called "Vote Leave, East Anglia".........

"All MP'S from all parties should tell the people the truth about the Lisbon Treaty and what will happen if we don't Leave the EU. ..Google it for yourselves. ... !

Read and BELIEVE! If you Have any doubts about leaving the Corrupt EU and its corrupt unelected Beurocrats of Brussels this will make you change your mind to #LEAVEMEANSLEAVE

What will actually happen if we stay in the EU and has already been agreed. Check it out if you wish:

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen the move is fully cancelled but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealth
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.; Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future what the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons"

Blimey! I haven't fact checked any of the points raised, I have simply copied and pasted it, but if only all the Remain voters had known this information before the referendum. It would have been a landslide for Leave.

Project fear

 

[harpo_72]

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

JLR were looking at expanding their business, taking their product manufacturing to higher levels without impacting current sites. They have opened new sites in the UK to build engines and future power systems.
The government has killed the car business their current tax system and the general bollocks regards diesel emissions has pretty much paralysed the car manufacturers and achieved nothing because we still have pre EU6 d powertrains on the roads with no penalties of note.
The government has also failed to implement an electrification strategy.. Tesla has worked harder, which is embarrassing!


Businesses make money, you reduce their profit opportunities and they will look elsewhere. But guess what, this filters to the local economy .. so all your little businesses, yes the ones who think they have freed the country and given us sovereign rule... well your buggered as well, because disposable incomes will vacate the area.

Oh and the argument we are being under cut by foreign workers taking lower pay... guess what they have honest value system, the slackers don’t! Sort yourselves out, and go back to school, if you want to be paid more.