Blair - He's got alot to answer for......

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes, but our case it was our choice, not imposed on us by an invading foreign army!

It's ok the point has been proved :thup:

 

[delc]

The problem I had with Tony Blair was that he was really just a smooth talking salesman, and quite shallow. A master of spin and hype! When he spoke it was quite difficult to disagree with anything he said, but when you went away and thought about it .....! Later in his career he inserted so many caveats into his speeches that they often become difficult to follow.

 

[Foxholer]

It doesn't support but your post backs me up, Iraq wasn't a respond to 9/11.

I think we are all actually 'saying' the same thing - that the 'War on Terror', that Afghanistan invasion was about, was used as an excuse for invading Iraq and getting rid of Saddam!

 

[Foxholer]

Yes he kept the country together by killing people who didn't agree with him !

Iraq was in civil war when he was in power also between the various religious groups - but his way of dealing with them - just kill them.

Unfortunate perhaps, but that still didn't/doesn't give any foreign country the right to invade, without sanction by UN Security Council Resolution - something that was never sought, because of its likely failure!

So you think that's a good thing ? Getting rid of rulers with absolute power and replacing that with democracy ?

Maybe, maybe not! I don't believe Western Democracy is right culturally for every country, and it is rather offensive that US seems to want to impose such a regime universally.

There are plenty of 'absolute power' rulers acting quite benevolently, some others not so, and still more acting as Saddam was!

The only way to legitimately use force to overthrow the last type, from outside, is through UN Security Council Resolution.

 

[Tashyboy]

I once read somewhere that a government is only as strong as the opposition.

if you look back at the thatcher years the labour SDLP, etc opposition was laughable.

Blair created New Labour when the Tories had John "interesting " Major. The Tory opposition was woeful.

gordon Brown mucked up Labour big style and an average Tory/Liberal coalition Party got in. The Labour opposition. pathetic.

UKIP now are in the mix because the main Parties could not run a brothel in SOHO.

As a coal miner (redundant next year), none of the governing parties have done anything for me in 35 years of work. the communities which have been destroyed and changed forever in England, Scotland and Wales is disgusting.

The Tories under Thatcher and Major I can understand, they had an agenda against people who wanted to work. but Tony Blair If he was on fire and the fire brigade came, they would ask me why my bladder is still full. Did nothing for the working class of this country, and harmed them even more by opening the immigration floodgates.

apparently that clown gets 1/4 million for each speech he gets (for giving it in an American accent).

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Thread has been tidied up

Further homophobic or racist posts will result in more infractions being handed out

 

[Sweep]

There were UK bases in both Saudi and Kuwait that were always under threat from Saddam

The reasons and legitimacy will always be debated but the end was the right one - a nurderous dictator was removed from power , tried and hanged for his crimes

Which would have been fine, if that was the reason we were given for going to war. It wasn't. They lied.

 

[Sweep]

As a coal miner (redundant next year), none of the governing parties have done anything for me in 35 years of work. the communities which have been destroyed and changed forever in England, Scotland and Wales is disgusting.

The Tories under Thatcher and Major I can understand, they had an agenda against people who wanted to work. but Tony Blair If he was on fire and the fire brigade came, they would ask me why my bladder is still full. Did nothing for the working class of this country, and harmed them even more by opening the immigration floodgates.

apparently that clown gets 1/4 million for each speech he gets (for giving it in an American accent).

When Blair was in power, my other half came from a mining family in South Yorkshire. That made for some interesting political debate between me and them but one thing we did agree on was that Blair's New Labour "revolution" had left them with no-one to vote for.

 

[Sweep]

Have you visited Iraq recently ?

Have you ever seen mass graves full of thousands of Kurds slaughtered by their leader

No, but I have watched documentaries about more than 3,000 innocent people being killed in America on 9/11 and I watch the news every night and hear about innocent women and children being buried alive and people being beheaded for not following the right religion. Some of whom were only there out of the goodness of their hearts to try to help the very people ISIS calls brothers.
To say that Saddam was worse than Al Qaeda and ISIS is nonsense in my opinion, but it is a pointless argument. The fact is that ISIS at least is part of the legacy of the second gulf war and Blair has to take responsibility for our part in that.

 

[Tashyboy]

Thread has been tidied up

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Gud man phil it was goin a bit sideways to say the least.

back to slagging off tony Bliar.

 

[Tashyboy]

When Blair was in power, my other half came from a mining family in South Yorkshire. That made for some interesting political debate between me and them but one thing we did agree on was that Blair's New Labour "revolution" had left them with no-one to vote for.

Unfortunately, and coming from mansfield which has been labour for lord knows how many years, you could put a toilet roll up for election and as long as it had a labour rosette on it would become the next MP. I am sure the same goes for Tory seats..

 

[Hacker Khan]

Thread has been tidied up

Further homophobic or racist posts will result in more infractions being handed out

Not again, I missed all the fun! Mind you, just noticed who's been blackballed which doesn't surprise me if racist infractions have been handed out judging by other posts. Not that I'm inferring the infraction was racist, I'm sure it was very politically correct.

 

[Old Skier]

Some northern or a large part?

A large part, there were reports of them taking the stink hole that is Fuluga and being only 15 miles west of Baghdad.

 

[Old Skier]

Any politician that can retire and end up a multi millionaire needs some serious investigation carried out on them or where they covert millionaires before they started playing this game.

 

[Ethan]

Blair was a very clever politician, and like most successful politicians, he was lucky with his timing. The Tory Govt had come to the end of its run, and people were desperate for a change, and Blair sold this modern reforming story, and had obviously made changes to Labour, and the nation bought it by the bucketload.

Then it all turned out to be a tragic set of lies and deceit, so the reaction was more extreme than it would have been from the usual tale of lying politicians.

Then Blair sets off on his middle east envoy junket. I heard a stat that since starting that, he has had more holidays at Cliff Richard's Barbados estate than trips to Gaza. Says it all really. I hope his next trip is to The Hague.

 

[Val]

A large part, there were reports of them taking the stink hole that is Fuluga and being only 15 miles west of Baghdad.

Just had a quick google on ISIS controlled areas and it's frightening to say the least. I wasn't aware of the depth this mob had.

 

[AlexDarling]

Just had a quick google on ISIS controlled areas and it's frightening to say the least. I wasn't aware of the depth this mob had.

not only depth but money- lots of money and a massive army.


I have no issues with Tony Blair and his actions- he did the right thing at the time. Hindsight hand wringers will always come out when things dont work out exactly as planned. At least he had the strength to make a decision and stick with it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

not only depth but money- lots of money and a massive army.


I have no issues with Tony Blair and his actions- he did the right thing at the time. Hindsight hand wringers will always come out when things dont work out exactly as planned. At least he had the strength to make a decision and stick with it.

^^^this

 

[Sweep]

not only depth but money- lots of money and a massive army.


I have no issues with Tony Blair and his actions- he did the right thing at the time. Hindsight hand wringers will always come out when things dont work out exactly as planned. At least he had the strength to make a decision and stick with it.

No hindsight here, or with a lot of people who opposed us going to war. I hate to say I told you so, but I did, as did a lot of others.
As for making a decision and sticking with it, well I guess you could say it is admirable, but I consider it an essential quality in a Prime Minister. In the end he made and stuck to the wrong decision and lied to get Parliament and the country to agree with him and I am surprised he has so many apologists, especially considering what we are seeing today.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sorry but if he lied then you will expect him to gain war crime charges

He acted on intelligence given to him - the intelligence ended up not being correct

If you want to accuse him of lying in regards Iraq then prove it.

They did find sites where WMD were housed at certain stages