ruff-driver
Journeyman Pro
Is it over ?
Club Fittings - science in action or snake oil for sale?
- Thread starter JohnnyDee
- Start date
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
What would be useable data? I track every game on Game Golf, since being fitted for my latest Clubs in January I can show you my handicap has come down by nearly 2 strokes, my FIR's have improved, my GIR's have improved, accuracy to the flag has improved.
I can then add I've played more, I've had lessons.
So was the fitting responsible bringing all this together? Would I have seen the same results with my previous clubs?
I can't be sure either way, what I will say, is that my bad shots I absolutely now blame myself as I am certainly more confident holding a Club that I believe is the best one for me at the moment.
It maybe the placebo effect but, as I was in the market for new clubs and the fitting came at no extra cost I took advantage.
woody69
Journeyman Pro
I had a driver fitting at the weekend at Wentworth TaylorMade performance lab. Must say, I rather enjoyed it. Hit a few with my own driver to get a baseline, then started hitting different heads / shaft combinations between the M1 and M2.
Ended up with a recommendation for M2 with 9.5' Diamana 60 S+ shaft at 45" length. The difference between that driver and my existing one was quite noticeable in terms of total distance (Avg 38 yards further (total)) and reduced spin rate (which is still far too high).
Ended up with a recommendation for M2 with 9.5' Diamana 60 S+ shaft at 45" length. The difference between that driver and my existing one was quite noticeable in terms of total distance (Avg 38 yards further (total)) and reduced spin rate (which is still far too high).
Foxholer
Blackballed
Yikes! That's a massive difference!
What was your previous combo, that such an improvement was made?
woody69
Journeyman Pro
PING G30 Regular (I think a TFC 419D) shaft. Length is 45" 3/4 and swing weight of D3.
Biggest difference was a drop in spin from avg of 5124 versus 3665 (which is still too high and down to my poor technique). Smash Factor was 1.30 (existing) v 1.41
Launch angle and swing speed remained consistent across all (around 10.5* and 95mph)
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D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Yes indeed that is still way too high, somewhere around mid 2000's is ideal.
Have you tried moving the ball forward in your stance to encourage more of a sweeping type of impact?
bobmac
Major Champion
Would you think that mid 2000 spin rate would be better for a launch angle of 10 degrees and a swingspeed of 95mph?
Foxholer
Blackballed
Yes!
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
woody69
Journeyman Pro
Yes, I have. I also try and tilt away, but I'm still coming down on the ball. Fitter gave me a drill to try, which was nice of him, by putting head cover about a foot in front of the ball and to miss it. He had to go and get it off the range though, which was fun for him after I hit it about 10 yards
It is quite probably that standard length, standard lie, standard grip size clubs with regular flex shafts will be perfectly OK for about 70% of golfers, but what if you are in the other 30%?. I discovered that I needed 2 degree flat lies and slightly oversized grips about 20 years ago and my golf improved quite markedly after that. 😎
Foxholer
Blackballed
From the 'Swingplane thread'....
If that's the case, your 2 degree flat lies might not be helping the change to 'a bit more upright' - assuming that that also carries through to impact! It may be worth considering either doing some bending, or (maybe less destructively) finding a 'standard' club to use for lessons/grooving before committing to changing the set! I'd certainly suggest you discuss whether your existing setup is contributing to the difficulty of changing with your Pro! It's quite amazing how the brain/body actually adjust to whatever seems to work - which may not actually be what you want!
I'm a bit of an odd shape anyway, having rather short legs and a long back and arms relative to my height. Even as a static fit I come out as needing 1 degree flat lies. I did play with standard length and lie clubs for several years because bozo sales assistants at American Golf etc told me that they would be perfect for me. So it's not the case that I have adapted to the club's I have. However I kept turning shots over to the left due to the heel digging in if I caught the shot at all fat. I was also prone to shanking, as to catch the ball cleanly I had to hit the ball off the heel end of the club face. Getting clubs with the correct lie angle for me made a huge difference to my game!
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Ping are coming to my club soon so I'm off to get my two degree upright clubs checked and see what they can do in terms of a new fitting. They've got trackman with them apparently so it'll be interesting to try the new I and I blade and while I've no illusion it'll be a full fitting let's see what they come up with
Foxholer
Blackballed
Foxholer
Blackballed
:thup:
MadAdey
Money List Winner
Here's something to consider. What is the height and wrist to floor measurement of people that think fitting is unnecessary. It would be interesting to see if people that do not believe in fitting are possibly the people that need it the least.
The percentages of 'non standard people' are debatable, but there has always been a case of a pro adapting clubs to the differently sized. Yes, the 5' or 6'8" man needs non standard clubs. But pros have always cut down, or lengthened clubs, or bent them a bit. Long before anyone ever heard the term 'club fitting', let alone it being a growing area of the game from cottage industry curio, to specialists with oodles of electronica, to every superstore and club pro claiming they offer it.
And it probably got away with it when it was under the radar and only for the really addicted.
That is not what is being questioned here really. The club fitting claim is that everyone, beginner, long term hacker, good player, bad player, normal shaped player, non-standard shaped player, etc, needs, or at worst can benefit from club fitting, is.
That there is a little sub industry in golf retail, that is borderline fraud, and an argument can easily be made as we have seen here, that there seems to be little substance to back up the gist of what it claims to offer, that it is taking advantage of people.
Yes, people can do what they like with their cash, and whatever helps them enjoy the game is fine. They may enjoy the process, golf tech banter and fancy gizmos spewing out numbers, and enjoy a confidence from knowing they have left no stone unturned in their search to play their best game. Fine. But that does not mean that it is not hocum. People enjoy going to psychics, and may feel they enjoy the process, and it helps give some purpose or confidence in decisions to be made of difficulties to be faced - but it is nevertheless a sham.
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Oohmeoldbacksknackered
Assistant Pro
Let's take this slowly...
You accept that pros have always found fitting helps their game.
You admit that is not what is being questioned.
You then say that the fitting claim is that EVERY golfer can benefit from fitting. Which is incorrect. The claim is that pros use it to be the very best they can and it may work similarly for you. ( A VERY different claim, please note the difference)
You then call it hocum and a sham...
Having already agreed that it works.
I said it before. You are castigating a profession based on an inconsistent and incorrect definition.
Oohmeoldbacksknackered
Assistant Pro
This paragraph is just borderline libel:
You claim fitting is fraud.- having already accepted its success over generations
You say an argument can easily be made, when you mean an unsubstantiated statement can easily be made.
You say there is little substance to back it up, other than the testimonials of top professionals and numerous fellow forumers.
And you end by saying it is taking advantage of people. Which the industry blatantly isn't. It is offering a service, which many people find helpful.
Please note the use of the word 'many'.
Now there may be practitioners within the industry who don't act in their clients best interest. But :
A) that is a totally different statement to saying the whole industry is fraud
B) you can find disingenuous people in every walk of life from doctors to roofers with estate agents somewhere in between.
