Club Fittings - science in action or snake oil for sale?

[Alucard]

But is getting fitted CORRECTLY going to make you a worse player, definitely not. So seeing as all the major brands give free fitting you would be mad not to take advantage of it.

I agree that if an individual feels that they will benefit from a custom fit and new clubs then go for it.
I do not agree that a custom fit is the right thing for everyone, as regards it being free from the major club vendors well its already included in the price of the clubs in most cases.

Custom fit will not make your game worse but it could hold some players back from improving as they are fit into the swing they take on the day of fitting.

If they are custom fit and making major changes in their swings in the future then they will have to be re fit and that could be expensive as Selling the custom fit clubs on is difficult as they are fit for the individual and trade ins are a rip off in most cases.

Each to their own though and enjoying the game is the main thing.

 

[Crow]

Hi Adey,
How's it going over there?
Have you joined a new club?
Looks like a very nice course!

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

Here's a question..

Once a club / set of clubs has been fully fitted to a player which parts of the fitting can be changed after time?

Eg presumably the shaft is simple enough to change. You can make a grip thicker easy enough. But can you make them thinner?
What about adjusting the lie?
Etc etc.

 

[guest100718]

Here's a question..

Once a club / set of clubs has been fully fitted to a player which parts of the fitting can be changed after time?

Eg presumably the shaft is simple enough to change. You can make a grip thicker easy enough. But can you make them thinner?
What about adjusting the lie?
Etc etc.

Pretty much any thing can be changed. Although not all clubs can be bent so easy.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Here's a question..

Once a club / set of clubs has been fully fitted to a player which parts of the fitting can be changed after time?

Eg presumably the shaft is simple enough to change. You can make a grip thicker easy enough. But can you make them thinner?
What about adjusting the lie?
Etc etc.

Loft & lie can be adjusted although if done too often it can weaken the club.

As for grips there are some slimmer than others (and lighter) plus less tape can be placed beneath.

Shafts, as well as being changed, can be lengthened and shortened.

Endless possibilities!

 

[the_coach]

Here's a question..

Once a club / set of clubs has been fully fitted to a player which parts of the fitting can be changed after time?

Eg presumably the shaft is simple enough to change. You can make a grip thicker easy enough. But can you make them thinner?
What about adjusting the lie?
Etc etc.

curious to the reason behind the Q?

short answer is yes stuff like 'lie'/'loft' etc can be changed after

& clubs can be re-gripped without as 'many wraps' for them to be thinner

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

curious to the reason behind the Q?

short answer is yes stuff like 'lie'/'loft' etc can be changed after

& clubs can be re-gripped without as 'many wraps' for them to be thinner

Something in Alucard's post about being fitted clubs being expensive to change.

I'm not a fitting fan but I think everyone has the right to spend their hard earned as they see fit.

As a salesman myself I think that the whole development of the swing should be part of the pitch:-

Get fitted today. Work on your swing and your fitting will develop with you....
Kind of pitch.

But to do that you need a certain amount of flexibility to play with things ongoing.

I just think most fitters must be missing a trick.

And if anyone says that thing about salesmen saying anything to get a sale I'll crush a blimmin' grape I blimey will.

👿

 

[Alucard]

Something in Alucard's post about being fitted clubs being expensive to change.


And if anyone says that thing about salesmen saying anything to get a sale I'll crush a blimmin' grape I blimey will.



Lol, Clubs can be bent even cast ones but there is a danger that cast clubs have imperfections in the metal due to cavities (weak spots) that can form during casting and there is a possibility that they will break.

Clubs with longer hosels are easier to bend and of course forged irons can be bent more easily than cast.
The thing is that if we are being true to the argument of Fitting, in many cases you can not just re-bend the lie angle without altering the shaft length and that costs money.
For those were money is no object then it doesnt matter but for those that are counting every penny (the majority) then its worth thinking about before going down the fitting avenue and getting locked in.

My main concern with fitting was the fact that many weekend golfers are being fit into very upright lie angles, something that pros of even very tall height would never do.
This has a tendency to force the player to attack the ball from an angle that is too steep and reduces the efficiency of each strike and restricts swing improvement.

Modern clubs are already far more upright in lie angles than the clubs from the era of the great ball strikers, so I would be wary about being fit into clubs that were upright, unless I were 6 feet 7 tall or more, lol.
There is no right or wrong in this discussion as some will be happy with a fitting and others do not want to be locked in as they are working on improving and changing their swings.
The thing is manufacturers are bringing out new clubs several times a year nowadays and they have to sell them to someone so they are looking to promote sales in new ways.
They will not be selling me any because I do not buy into the importance of it.

Seve Ballesteros learned to play golf as a child by practice , practice, practice with a cut down 3 iron using pebbles on the beach as balls and he had all the shots in the bag with one club.

Practicing the right way and taking lessons from a good teaching pro is a better way to improve the efficiency and consistency of a golf swing to gain distance, backspin and accuracy and thankfully that will never change as golf is frustrating but character building and the elation when we play well is a real buzz.

 

[garyinderry]

Bryson dechambeau has extremely upright clubs.

Much more than your average hacker.

He has no problem hitting a good ball.


Still waiting to see the proof that pros shy away from upright lie angles. To my untrained eye on tv they all seem to have hands tighter to the body that me and would require at least a degree or two upright to have the toe a touch in the air at address.

 

[Alucard]

Bryson dechambeau has extremely upright clubs.

Much more than your average hacker.

He has no problem hitting a good ball.


Still waiting to see the proof that pros shy away from upright lie angles. To my untrained eye on tv they all seem to have hands tighter to the body that me and would require at least a degree or two upright to have the toe a touch in the air at address.

De Chambeaus clubs are all the same length made by Edel, so obviously they are very upright. He is a talent and an oddball that does things his own way.

The proof of pros lie angles is all over the internet if you look for it.
for example Players like Ernie els 6 feet 5 plays 1 degree upright, Vijay Singh 6 feet 5 plays 2 or 3 degrees flat, look at Keegan Bradley, lol.
As I said the standard lie of a golf club is based on the data gleaned from seeing pro golfers strike the ball and is the one that is most likely to suit the majority of golfers.

You do not have to agree with me as we can agree to disagree but what I say about pro golfers having flatter swings is correct as physics shows that angle of attack affects ball flight etc and a flatter swing is what most pros use regardless of height.

 

[garyinderry]

Here is one for you...



I had the day off yesterday so decided I would get my loft and lie looked at down at Clarkes golf centre. He first checked the lofts which were a degree or two out here and there. Not much to worry about.

I got on the lie board and hit some shots. I was catching the heel on the ground.

I tried some extremely flat irons and upright irons and I was producing the same impact delivery.

My shot shape was pretty much the same with both lie angles. A bit of a pull to target.

The fitter said he didn't want to adjust the clubs as all it was doing was changing my static lie. He recommend seeing a pro instead to work on my delivery.

 

[Mozza73]

Never been fitted, I did try once, a long time ago - the Pro took one look at me standing in the shop and dismissed it as only necessary for for people with certain builds and unusual swings. Sold me a set of Maxfli Revolution irons off the shelf :rofl:

I guess things have moved on but I'm willing to bet many retailers would still do exactly the same thing

 

[Foxholer]

Lol, Clubs can be bent even cast ones but there is a danger that cast clubs have imperfections in the metal due to cavities (weak spots) that can form during casting and there is a possibility that they will break.

Clubs with longer hosels are easier to bend and of course forged irons can be bent more easily than cast.
The thing is that if we are being true to the argument of Fitting, in many cases you can not just re-bend the lie angle without altering the shaft length and that costs money.
For those were money is no object then it doesnt matter but for those that are counting every penny (the majority) then its worth thinking about before going down the fitting avenue and getting locked in.

My main concern with fitting was the fact that many weekend golfers are being fit into very upright lie angles, something that pros of even very tall height would never do.
This has a tendency to force the player to attack the ball from an angle that is too steep and reduces the efficiency of each strike and restricts swing improvement.

Modern clubs are already far more upright in lie angles than the clubs from the era of the great ball strikers, so I would be wary about being fit into clubs that were upright, unless I were 6 feet 7 tall or more, lol.
There is no right or wrong in this discussion as some will be happy with a fitting and others do not want to be locked in as they are working on improving and changing their swings.
The thing is manufacturers are bringing out new clubs several times a year nowadays and they have to sell them to someone so they are looking to promote sales in new ways.
They will not be selling me any because I do not buy into the importance of it.

Seve Ballesteros learned to play golf as a child by practice , practice, practice with a cut down 3 iron using pebbles on the beach as balls and he had all the shots in the bag with one club.

Practicing the right way and taking lessons from a good teaching pro is a better way to improve the efficiency and consistency of a golf swing to gain distance, backspin and accuracy and thankfully that will never change as golf is frustrating but character building and the elation when we play well is a real buzz.

De Chambeaus clubs are all the same length made by Edel, so obviously they are very upright. He is a talent and an oddball that does things his own way.

The proof of pros lie angles is all over the internet if you look for it.
for example Players like Ernie els 6 feet 5 plays 1 degree upright, Vijay Singh 6 feet 5 plays 2 or 3 degrees flat, look at Keegan Bradley, lol.
As I said the standard lie of a golf club is based on the data gleaned from seeing pro golfers strike the ball and is the one that is most likely to suit the majority of golfers.

You do not have to agree with me as we can agree to disagree but what I say about pro golfers having flatter swings is correct as physics shows that angle of attack affects ball flight etc and a flatter swing is what most pros use regardless of height.

There is so much wrong and/or self-contradictory stuff in these posts that it's not worth pointing out the individual ones!

the following refers to irons only...

My advice would be to get loft/lie checked every time - both statically (measurement) and dynamically (on a lie board) This can make an incredible difference to a set if a couple of irons are out. It certainly did with me - the club I always shied away from instantly becoming my favourite and my ball-striking instantly becoming much more consistent! garyinderry seems to be someone who unconsciously adjusts - something I have actually heard of too!

Any further fitting can be considered a bit of a luxury, though Mizuno's DNA system can indicate which sort of shafts are likely to be more suitable - it's not bullet-proof though! One of the major considerations is whether to use light, medium or heavy, something I'm not sure that DNA actually suggests. I've found (experience/dabbling over many years) that I need relatively heavy irons. I could squeeze more head speed, therefore distance, with lighter ones, but the times I've tried them have been 'disasters' with me having no idea where the the ball will go! Likewise, stiff-ish shafts suit me better, for a similar reason - and I prefer/am more used to the feel.

Length isn't overly important, provided they are at least long enough. At standard length, my main set is half an inch shorter than my 'home' one, but I barely notice the difference - certainly after a couple of shots! I didn't really have a problem hitting the 6-iron of a set of blades built +1.75 for a 6'10 player!

Grip size is more for comfort than anything else - at least for me! Actual grip (with the hands) is more likely to affect shot shape than a slightly thicker or thinner grip. In other sports (tennis, hockey, squash etc), I've preferred a thicker than normal grip. so prefer a fatter than normal golf grip. Again, there doesn't seem to be sufficient difference in my shot shapes between my 2 sets, one of which is mid-size, while the other is 'standard!

Ping's static fit may or may not be as good as a dynamic one, but at least it guarantees (hopefully) that loft/lie are consistent!

 

[Alucard]

There is so much wrong and/or self-contradictory stuff in these posts that it's not worth pointing out the individual ones!


Ping's static fit may or may not be as good as a dynamic one, but at least it guarantees (hopefully) that loft/lie are consistent!

So you are a fan of fitting and thats ok but in my opinion you place far too much importance in it and my opinion aint changing so we will agree to disagree.

There was nothing wrong in my post as it was all factually correct and I already said in an earlier post that pings colour chart is good enough for a beginner who need not get bogged down about fittings as they are really unimportant.

By the way cast clubs can be bent 3 or 4 degrees similar to Forged irons but they can break due to anomolies in the casting process. If you alter lies then the club lengths are possibly out (if you have already been fitted)

Anyway I have made my point and the proof is out there all over the internet for those that have the time and patience to check up on it themselves. Check on golfers heights and the lies they use.

Tour pros do swing on a much flatter plane than most weekend golfers, Bryson de Chambeaus clubs are all the same length as a 6 iron (I think) thats why they all look upright at address and standard Lies are taken from the ways pros swing their clubs.

Fitting weekend golfers in more and more upright lies is foolhardy and will hold back golfers that are trying to flatten out and improve their swings in the future.

Practice practice practice in the correct manner with a good teaching pro, in my opinion is a better way to invest your money rather than a fitting. Each to their own but nobody will ever sell me a fitting as they are over rated but someone has to buy into it as they have to sell you the latest and greatest clubs where the 7 iron has a 9 stamped on it etc.
The main thing is we all choose the way we go about taking up golf and people trying to force the idea of fittings on newbies over the important practicing the correct way as often as you can will always attract negative posts from those who disagree on the importance of them.
The main thing is that we enjoy our golf, I certainly enjoy mine.

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

Practice practice practice in the correct manner with a good teaching pro, in my opinion is a better way to invest your money rather than a fitting. Each to their own
.....
The main thing is we all choose the way we go about taking up golf and people trying to force the idea of fittings on newbies over the important practicing the correct way as often as you can will always attract negative posts from those who disagree on the importance of them.
The main thing is that we enjoy our golf, I certainly enjoy mine.

Two things:-
I think I mentioned it before, I would argue that you are different to the majority of golfers on here no matter how much they argue. Most practice. Many practice enough. But I seriously wonder how many get up at the crack of dawn to practice shaping their shots like some I could mention.
Secondly, if anyone 'forces' any idea onto a beginner they should be lined up and mildly reprimanded - two wrongs don't make a right you know.
But enough people want to feel like a pro. Loads have money to burn when it comes to golf. And good luck to them.
I'm off the shelf. I don't practice. I swing too upright. Oh, and I'm absolute rubbish.
But I bet I enjoy myself more than most when I do get the chance to play
😁😁

 

[Alucard]

Oohmeoldbackskanckered you are quite correct and its what you want out of the game, I like to be as good as I ca be at anything I try to do so I put the time in with it as I wouldnt sleep at night if I were shanking the ball or slicing it, lol.

I posted what I believed and gave another viable viewpoint instead of this fitting thing that many are pushing with the many comparisons to Car seats and suits etc, lol and gave some facts that are true and are all over the internet to see.

Anyway there is no definite answer to this as a fitting will help some to be a little more consistent but so will practicing the correct way with any old clubs as long as they ground correctly at address..

The main thing is to enjoy your golf the best you can, I am lucky having the course over the road from my home and having a good Pro there that I can seek advice from and have a nine hole lesson every week or so.

I have 4 sets of clubs all from the 80s and nineties and all sets have different shaft lengths and lie angles and I can hit them all the same. Thats why we have knees so we can adapt by flexing them.

the Tiger Shark Great Whites (with the Gill pattern on the back) are a few yards shorter in the long irons distance wise due to the shaft lengths being a quarter inch less per club than the normal standard for that era but they go straight enough.
All I was trying to say was that newbies should not get all hung up on the clubs they are using and feel that they have to rush into a fitting as long as the clubs are grounding correctly at address thats all that matters.

Enjoy the game and then if they really feel that they want to splash some cash they will be in a better position to decide what they want.

I had a lesson with the Pro this morning on Putting and working the ball flight on the Long irons and Hybrid, I also bought a Titleist 975F 3 wood 14.5 degrees like mint today really cheap to fill the gap in my bag from 9,5 degree driver and 18 degree hybrid so tomorrow I will be at the range really early and hitting some balls with it.
I will be there early again as its going to be another scorcher, lol.

 

[Backsticks]

Am all for people enjoying the game, and going about it in whatever way they wish. But I think many are being conned by the proposition that club fitting will, or at worst has a good chance of, helping their game. People may feel they get something from it, but if that is just an illusion, is it really a good thing ? i.e. they may well enjoy the process, may even believe the new clubs are better 'fitted' to them, and may leave with a renewed sense of confidence that they will play with the optimum club spec for them, but surely that is all based on the process having some sound foundation and credibility. If it cannot offer that, are people not just being taken advantage of. I do think so.

 

[Region3]

Oohmeoldbackskanckered you are quite correct and its what you want out of the game, I like to be as good as I ca be at anything I try to do so I put the time in with it as I wouldnt sleep at night if I were shanking the ball or slicing it, lol.

I posted what I believed and gave another viable viewpoint instead of this fitting thing that many are pushing with the many comparisons to Car seats and suits etc, lol and gave some facts that are true and are all over the internet to see.

Anyway there is no definite answer to this as a fitting will help some to be a little more consistent but so will practicing the correct way with any old clubs as long as they ground correctly at address..

The main thing is to enjoy your golf the best you can, I am lucky having the course over the road from my home and having a good Pro there that I can seek advice from and have a nine hole lesson every week or so.

I have 4 sets of clubs all from the 80s and nineties and all sets have different shaft lengths and lie angles and I can hit them all the same. Thats why we have knees so we can adapt by flexing them.

the Tiger Shark Great Whites (with the Gill pattern on the back) are a few yards shorter in the long irons distance wise due to the shaft lengths being a quarter inch less per club than the normal standard for that era but they go straight enough.
All I was trying to say was that newbies should not get all hung up on the clubs they are using and feel that they have to rush into a fitting as long as the clubs are grounding correctly at address thats all that matters.

Enjoy the game and then if they really feel that they want to splash some cash they will be in a better position to decide what they want.

I had a lesson with the Pro this morning on Putting and working the ball flight on the Long irons and Hybrid, I also bought a Titleist 975F 3 wood 14.5 degrees like mint today really cheap to fill the gap in my bag from 9,5 degree driver and 18 degree hybrid so tomorrow I will be at the range really early and hitting some balls with it.
I will be there early again as its going to be another scorcher, lol.

Can I ask what hc/index you play off, and do you think you would still be exactly the same with fitted clubs (or maybe worse)?

 

[delc]

One sized golf clubs cannot possibly fit everybody from a 4'10" woman to a 6'10" man! Your clubs should at least be the correct length and lie angle for your body measurements and proportions. I also think that grip size is important.

 

[Alucard]

Can I ask what hc/index you play off, and do you think you would still be exactly the same with fitted clubs (or maybe worse)?

I had lessons back in 1991 and learned to swing a club and then over the next 24 years played around once or twice a year sometimes none, I have played less than 25 rounds of golf in my life since 1991.

My brother in law from the UK who plays every week, came to stay with us in Portugal earlier this year, we moved 7 years ago and I was rusty as I had just a couple of sessions on the driving range for years. He wanted to play the Alto Golf course.

I hit some good shots and plenty bad ones but I enjoyed it and decided that I was going to give it a proper go, so 3 months ago I began to practice as often as I can, in between looking after my racing pigeons and weight training and Wrestling training. lol

I booked a lesson or two with with the Pro and he gave me a good deal for on course training,if 3 people play 9 holes with him and after 3 games of 9 holes at Alto golf in Portimao near Alvor I was ready to try and shoot a score.

I was scored strictly 2 weeks ago on the Back 9 holes and shot 45 with 2 triple bogeys and last week I played the front nine and shot 43. with one triple bogey.
It is a par 72 championship standard course.

This week there was no 9 hole training game so I had a lesson on the range instead and I hope to be shooting 80 or less in the next 3 months and the Pro thinks this is a very good possibility. time will tell.

I am not able to join a club at the moment due to not being able to justify the expense, so I can not get an official HCP (in fact I already stated this on a thread I began, asking advice on HCPS)

As regards fitted clubs, I believe that once I am happy with my swing and it wont be changing any more (I am working on flattening it a bit more)

That a fitting wouldnt do any harm but I am a fan of the old style clubs lofts and lies.
I play 3 to PW, I can hit a 1 and a 2 iron but I find the 18 degree hybrid more versatile.
Things like grips I grip my own clubs as it took me 10 mins to figure out how to do it after watching a video on the web and my Ping Eye2 irons I just regripped with a length of string under the grip down the back of the grip.

I find this helps at the top of the backswing as on round grips the hand shape leaves a gap and if the bottom 3 fingers are too loose it can cause a fat shot.
Im off out now to hit the new (to me) 3 wood I just purchased and hopefully hit it well as if so it will shave a shot or two off my score.