Oohmeoldbacksknackered
Assistant Pro
When I said wrong I meant wrong in the way that noones swing is perfect. I didn't mean to disparage your name or reputation 😇
Club Fittings - science in action or snake oil for sale?
- Thread starter JohnnyDee
- Start date
When I said wrong I meant wrong in the way that noones swing is perfect. I didn't mean to disparage your name or reputation 😇
Oohmeoldbacksknackered
Assistant Pro
Long LONG time ago but I thought it was the other way round. High kick point meant the slower swingers could get more whip into it whilst the flat bellies could swing faster with the lesser flexLower kickpoint for weaker players who have difficulty getting the ball in the air, higher kickpoint for better players to stop them ballooning the ball too high in the air.
Either way...Memories, like the doobries in my whatsit. As the song says
🤓😀
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
There is no one size fits all - there is no definitive answer
Some people will spend thousands on full fittings and every single club and it won't improve their game one single bit - for some it will take their HC down
Some can take a set of the shelf and it will be a set that will propel them into single figures
There will never be the answer that fitting "will" improve your game - the answer IMO will always be it "could" improve your game
Some people will spend thousands on full fittings and every single club and it won't improve their game one single bit - for some it will take their HC down
Some can take a set of the shelf and it will be a set that will propel them into single figures
There will never be the answer that fitting "will" improve your game - the answer IMO will always be it "could" improve your game
I agree it could improve your game if you take lessons now and again and above all Practice the right way on the course and at the driving range as often as your schedule will allow. Correct practice will improve your game.
Or, does it mean that there is nothing to it. In the manner of the stopped clock being correct twice a day, the case of someone getting fitted and saying they reduced their handicap, may well have happened anyway. Peoples handicaps do reduce. Getting fitted, whether beneficial or not in itself, may have coincided with a concerted effort to improve, get lessons, practice, take it seriously, play regularly rather than rarely, etc. Or maybe they could just as well have gone into a superstore and picked whatever new set of the shelf at random.
If it doesnt work for some, then is it not more likely that it is just a sham ?
If it doesnt fit - then if the fitting process had any credibility, it would, in those cases, say that - "look from our analysis, it really doesnt matter what you play, fitting will make no difference to your game (please pay at the desk on the way out!)". But how often does this happen (not just a "you should get some lessons as well maybe" hint) - but an out and out - forget it, we cant fit you.
Club fitters dont seem to do this. They fit anyway. And if there is no improvement, then say, "well there are more factors involved and fitting is a solution for all" - which shows they havent a rashers really.
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Oohmeoldbacksknackered
Assistant Pro
No, the exact opposite.
You can say, it works for these people, therefore, if you want to, we can give you the same service.
(The important thing is, if you want to. There will always be golfers that want the newest and the best, and noone would ever say that if a high handicapper comes in to buy a brand new model at full price a salesman should say, leave it - you'll be able to pick it up half price in 6 months)
Then......
Once you have the customer in front of you the good salesman would probably suggest a second fitting (obviously FOC) before making the sale.
Then once he has the close but before taking the cash he should say that best results are achieved alongside practice and possibly lessons, and we recommend a regular top up at a reduced rate, once every 3 - 6 months.
Book the now very happy customer in and build a nice steady cash flow.
Simples
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Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
I've lost track now.
Are we "discussing" whether club fitters can provide improvement through equipment, or that some clubs are more suitable for an individual than others?
Are we "discussing" whether club fitters can provide improvement through equipment, or that some clubs are more suitable for an individual than others?
G
guest100718
Guest
No idea. Perhaps we need some physics....
Norrin Radd
Tour Winner
as far as my club fitting is concerned i cant say that it has helped my game or to that matter made it worse .
i won the Yonex clubs that were fitted to my swing on the day but have yet to play any golf with them as i am still unable to walk the course due to injury .
the way this thread is going i will let you all know on about page 750.:thup:
must say the clubs feel really nice when i swing them in the garden.
i won the Yonex clubs that were fitted to my swing on the day but have yet to play any golf with them as i am still unable to walk the course due to injury .
the way this thread is going i will let you all know on about page 750.:thup:
must say the clubs feel really nice when i swing them in the garden.
Smiffy
Grand Slam Winner
ger147
Tour Winner
I play off scratch without a ball
I'm off 14 with no ball - keep forgetting I'm playing with no ball so when I can't find it I blob the hole...
freddielong
Tour Winner
The problem is people's expectations and this is probably driven by the manufacturers, custom fit can not turn you into a good golfer from a duffer, custom fit may help tighten up your dispersion on your good swings but with you bad swings you are still on your own.
What is unmeasured is how much club fitting effects your golf. There simply seems to be no data linking club fitting as a process (and no clear evidence for even that the targets club fitters aim for having any credibility themselves), and the effect on ones game.
This allows both people's expectations and club fitters claims to drift way out of whack with reality. There simply is no check. Anecdotes here and there one way or the other are only that. And when those pushing the claim are in the main club fitters with a stake in the myth being perpetuated, you would have to be very sceptical.
At the moment, the best one could probably say is case not proven. And so it would make you wonder how close to genuine fraud the sales claims made for the process are.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
I disagree and your scepticism leads me to ask if you've ever been fitted? As many others have pointed out, a fitting isn't a quick fix, but if done properly may aid a golfer into improving, especially if done in conjunction with lessons and good practice. I've had fitting and bought off the shelf. I enjoyed the process of getting fitted, especially trying different makes and models and as I do it for a hobby and not a living, and I have the money to spend on new clubs, why shouldn't I or anyone else get a fitting. As it happened, when I've been fitted I enjoyed some success, winning a club comp and a moderate cut. I was happy and isn't that the whole point?
bobmac
Major Champion
You seem to have a very low opinion of pros/club fitters
upsidedown
Tour Winner
Had a Titliest demo day at ours two weeks ago and explained I was looking for a 3 wood with a higher ball flight than my currently one , Callaway Diablo.
Hit some balls with stiff and regular shafts and settled on the reg, then tweaked the settings till I was happy.
Picked it up today and straight into the Medal and very pleased with it, lovely soft draw and 220 carry.
Not a lot of science maybe, but the fitters nounce to know which setting suited my swing.
Hit some balls with stiff and regular shafts and settled on the reg, then tweaked the settings till I was happy.
Picked it up today and straight into the Medal and very pleased with it, lovely soft draw and 220 carry.
Not a lot of science maybe, but the fitters nounce to know which setting suited my swing.
3565
Journeyman Pro
Id like him to take on Tom Wishon. :thup:
Well, no, only of their claims on the club fitting. It really does seem to be a monster out of control. First it was the occasional specialist here and there. Then club fitting days as a promo from manufacturers at clubs or ranges. Then more and more pros got into it. Then the big chains stores got into it. All to varying degrees of course, with various lots looking down on others.
Have read a couple of his books. He has certainly studied the topic. But never links all the fine tuning to game improvement. (Note also that as a sort of high priest of custom club fitting, he has a serious dog in the fight on the topic, and quite a revenue stream hanging on it - so not exactly impartial).
Nor do people who try to make the case for club fitting :
if done properly,
may aid,
in conjunction with lessons and good practice.
Why all the caveats ? If there were substance to it, then it would improve a golfer. Thats what is being sold - improvement without practice - mould the club to the swing, not have someone need a flawed swing to suit a 'wrong' club.
So it should give an improvement without lessons and without practice. (Lessons and practice may bring more, but of course, then the clubs would be 'wrong' again....).
If there is substance to the club fitting, then it should improve a golfer, full stop - the only case where it shouldnt, is when the golfer is sent away again with the same clubs and told "you already have the 'perfect' clubs, I can do nothing for you".
3565
Journeyman Pro
I think 30-40yrs of club designing, building and custom fitting, certainly qualifies him to state a case that club fitting will help a player to play better golf with the right equipment fitted for them. He's certainly more qualified then what you are spouting about that custom club fitting is codswallop and really whether he has a revenue stream hanging on it or not, he knows more about it then you'll ever know and you saying show me the facts how it improves, you show us the facts where it doesn't help or improve a golfer?
Thats usually the tack that is tried when someone has already lost the real debate - when proof cannot be given, shift the burden of proof to one of disproof by others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
