Club Fittings - science in action or snake oil for sale?

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

An example of this is that I was not getting good use out of a 3 wood but wanted a club that on occasion I could get to the par 5s below regulation. We put together a hybrid with 17* and a low/low heavy shaft. It was a case of having a bullet flight that conditions permitting can creep/roll up onto the par 5 greens in two. More use all round for me than a 3 wood, not going to fly as high but can be used off the tee and still get out there. There is no substitute for swing speed but I am not going to gain any of that so lets see if we can make the numbers work for us in another way.... Custom fit... its only physics, entirely quantifiable physics.

Or you could find a clearance 2hybid in a bargain bin in the Edinburgh Wooden Mill for £35 for example.
😊
Embarrassing maybe, but exactly the same logic.
Only I use mine to try and reach some trickier par 4s. Not so much quantifiable physics, more quantifiable 'howmuchcanIgetawaywithwithoutherindoorsnoticing'.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Its unlikely someone will change their tempo, loft and lie should be checked every year. That aside, I don't think anyone thinks its the answer, I think we are a bunch of golf addicts who enjoy every aspect of the game and this can be part of it.

it really is not about sticking in the next shaft and gaining x yards, its about getting your whole bag put together to work together and work with you.

I have not seen anyone suggest that its in any way instead of skill or practice.

But that is really my point.

There is little logic to support fitting but if it makes people happy and it does no harm to anyone else; fine, go with it.

BTW as for changing tempo a friend who is a teaching pro' tells me it is quite a common change as swings evolve.

 

[3565]

Exactly. ........ at the elite level it may offer some small benefit. But for club players. Not so much.

Go and read what claims are made about custom fit and tell me if they sound true.

I don't need to go read about the claims of if custom fitting are true or not, as I for one have had it proven to me with 2 different fitters that getting fit can 'help' your game and be more consistent. One session was when I took a course on club fitting and I hit 5 different 6 irons and the only difference between all of them was length and lie. The first I couldn't hit anywhere in the middle of the club, the next 3 were OK, so-so, and in between the 2, but the last club I hit one shot and knew instantly that was the club, I hit another and said its just totally a different feel and club.

I suppose it depends on your own skill level that will dictate if custom fit is for you or not, so maybe it's just not for you!

 

[guest100718]

I don't need to go read about the claims of if custom fitting are true or not, as I for one have had it proven to me with 2 different fitters that getting fit can 'help' your game and be more consistent. One session was when I took a course on club fitting and I hit 5 different 6 irons and the only difference between all of them was length and lie. The first I couldn't hit anywhere in the middle of the club, the next 3 were OK, so-so, and in between the 2, but the last club I hit one shot and knew instantly that was the club, I hit another and said its just totally a different feel and club.

I suppose it depends on your own skill level that will dictate if custom fit is for you or not, so maybe it's just not for you!

Zzzzzzzzzz

 

[3565]

Zzzzzzzzzz

:rofl:Think some on here think the same about your posts on this thread.

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

I've looked and can't find anything concrete. Just wild claims and stupid analogies.

What more concrete evidence do you want other than every top athlete in every sport using science as much as possible to wring out every tiny last advantage they can.
For golfers this consists of custom fitting to the 'n' th degree.?
Have you ever been inside the Ping van for example and spoken to the guys about how they go about their business (other golf manufacturers are available)
You and I might not understand the theory behind it, but as practical physicists these guys know their onions.
When top pros are within a fraction of a shot of each other over a season, surely you can see the benefit of getting slightly better iron grouping, or a more controllable spin on a wedge?
It might only be a shot or two improvement per tournament, but that's thousands of pounds a year to the player.
And God knows how much to the manufacturer.

 

[guest100718]

What more concrete evidence do you want other than every top athlete in every sport using science as much as possible to wring out every tiny last advantage they can.
For golfers this consists of custom fitting to the 'n' th degree.?
Have you ever been inside the Ping van for example and spoken to the guys about how they go about their business (other golf manufacturers are available)
You and I might not understand the theory behind it, but as practical physicists these guys know their onions.
When top pros are within a fraction of a shot of each other over a season, surely you can see the benefit of getting slightly better iron grouping, or a more controllable spin on a wedge?
It might only be a shot or two improvement per tournament, but that's thousands of pounds a year to the player.
And God knows how much to the manufacturer.

Mmmm I Said that already. You fitting zealots need to get your stories straight.

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

But that is really my point.

There is little logic to support fitting.

There's every logic to support fitting.
Tiny improvement is worth thousands of pounds to a pro player.
Regular fitting by someone who knows their swing will keep their game as near to 100% for as much of the season as possible.
A shot here or there is more TV time. Which is a better sponsor.
Which is more Wonga.

😘

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

Mmmm I Said that already. You fitting zealots need to get your stories straight.

So you're happy that fitting offers an edge.
Good.
Once you accept that, the discussion is over.
It's not up to you or me to judge anyone out there on how they spend their money as an amateur.
Someone wants full fitting.
You say it's not worth it.
You say you want a £300 Titleist driver.
I say it's not worth it.
I want a full set of irons.
Someone else says I only need a half set of used clubs.
Where do you draw the line?

Yes I can play golf with any kind of stick. But it's up to me to choose what level of club suits me.
And it's a poor show from you if you ridicule my choice.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

There's every logic to support fitting.
Tiny improvement is worth thousands of pounds to a pro player.
Regular fitting by someone who knows their swing will keep their game as near to 100% for as much of the season as possible.
A shot here or there is more TV time. Which is a better sponsor.
Which is more Wonga.



If you had read my post you would have seen I was referring to those who post on here.

I am not aware of many Tour players contributing to this particular discussion!

If, however, club golfers wish to go through this process then fine. That's their business and nothing to do with me. Just so long as they do not subsequently make ridiculous claims of the benefits and gains.

 

[Backsticks]

There's every logic to support fitting.
Tiny improvement is worth thousands of pounds to a pro player.
Regular fitting by someone who knows their swing will keep their game as near to 100% for as much of the season as possible.
A shot here or there is more TV time. Which is a better sponsor.
Which is more Wonga.

😘

If there is any logic, we havent seen it in this thread, nor am I aware of it anywhere else.

Your post is a perfect example of the non-logic, and general woolly thinking that is employed in the delusional thinking about club fitting.

'Which is more wonga' is in no way a conclusion that there is merit to club fitting.
And the more half-baked fluff that is put out to try to justify it, the more the snake oil view of it is enhanced.

 

[guest100718]

So you're happy that fitting offers an edge.
Good.
Once you accept that, the discussion is over.
It's not up to you or me to judge anyone out there on how they spend their money as an amateur.
Someone wants full fitting.
You say it's not worth it.
You say you want a £300 Titleist driver.
I say it's not worth it.
I want a full set of irons.
Someone else says I only need a half set of used clubs.
Where do you draw the line?

Yes I can play golf with any kind of stick. But it's up to me to choose what level of club suits me.
And it's a poor show from you if you ridicule my choice.

Lol who's ridiculing it. My only point is that club fitting makes no discernible difference to a golfers score. There are a long list of things that will make a difference and club fitting is rightly near or at the bottom.

 

[Backsticks]

What more concrete evidence do you want other than every top athlete in every sport using science as much as possible to wring out every tiny last advantage they can.

You and I might not understand the theory behind it, but as practical physicists these guys know their onions.

When top pros are within a fraction of a shot of each other over a season, surely you can see the benefit of getting slightly better iron grouping, or a more controllable spin on a wedge?
It might only be a shot or two improvement per tournament, but that's thousands of pounds a year to the player.
And God knows how much to the manufacturer.

Every top athlete using science makes no case for club fitting being beneficial. It just means lots do it. They are sheep, and superstitious, and in the main, have little science or physics knowledge themselves.

'Practical physicists'? More like handyman quacks with an interest in golf. If they know their onions they would have widely distributed information showing how beneficial club fitting is. (Or maybe those who really do know their onions saw there was nothing in it and got out of the game).

Your last line are a list of correct statements, but have nothing to do with stating the case for club fitting.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Or has he ever driven a car that the seat isn't the right height or distance for his stature for 4hrs? After all it's just a seat we sit on?

What a daft analogy. Do.you actually get custom fitted for your car seat then?

The OP was JohnnyDee. Johnny is a lovely little fella; little, relative to me, being the operative word. Given our substantial difference in size, I seriously doubt whether I could get into the driver's seat of Johnny's car, let alone drive it; Johnny meanwhile could comfortably get into my driver's seat but simply wouldn't reach the pedals. The set up of each vehicle relative to its respective driver allows that driver to perform more comfortably, and consequently better.

No you don't get custom fitted for a car seat, but it does allow you the option to change your position to best suit yourself. Were Johnny & I to have to drive the same car with the same seat fixed in the one position, it would suit one of us slightly better than the other, but probably would suit neither of us well. Move that to a golf club and it should be fairly obvious to a sensible thinking individual that the standard fit golf club that you would have both of us use will have the same effect as a fixed drivers seat; it will allow neither of us to start from the best address position and consequently our ability to perform will to some degree be compromised.

Your response is not to provide a sensible counter argument but simply to call the analogy daft. My experience is that people who call everyone else's explanations daft without being able to provide a logical counter argument are usually the stupid ones. Having been asked to provide some constructive debate you've ignored the opportunity and reverted to type. I rest my case.

Zzzzzzzzzz

:rofl:Think some on here think the same about your posts on this thread.

Only some? You do surprise me. :rofl:

 

[guest100718]

The OP was JohnnyDee. Johnny is a lovely little fella; little, relative to me, being the operative word. Given our substantial difference in size, I seriously doubt whether I could get into the driver's seat of Johnny's car, let alone drive it; Johnny meanwhile could comfortably get into my driver's seat but simply wouldn't reach the pedals. The set up of each vehicle relative to its respective driver allows that driver to perform more comfortably, and consequently better.

No you don't get custom fitted for a car seat, but it does allow you the option to change your position to best suit yourself. Were Johnny & I to have to drive the same car with the same seat fixed in the one position, it would suit one of us slightly better than the other, but probably would suit neither of us well. Move that to a golf club and it should be fairly obvious to a sensible thinking individual that the standard fit golf club that you would have both of us use will have the same effect as a fixed drivers seat; it will allow neither of us to start from the best address position and consequently our ability to perform will to some degree be compromised.

Your response is not to provide a sensible counter argument but simply to call the analogy daft. My experience is that people who call everyone else's explanations daft without being able to provide a logical counter argument are usually the stupid ones. Having been asked to provide some constructive debate you've ignored the opportunity and reverted to type. I rest my case.






Only some? You do surprise me. :rofl:

Cool I'll cancel my daughters driving lessons and just tell her all she needs is to move the seat a bit.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Cool I'll cancel my daughters driving lessons and just tell her all she needs is to move the seat a bit.

I'm not sure we needed any more proof of the value your posts bring to this thread but still you've managed to provide it.

 

[guest100718]

I'm not sure we needed any more proof of the value your posts bring to this thread but still you've managed to provide it.

Lol is that it? No smart analogy about cutting bread to the right size for the toaster or some such nonsense?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

No you don't get custom fitted for a car seat, but it does allow you the option to change your position to best suit yourself. Were Johnny & I to have to drive the same car with the same seat fixed in the one position, it would suit one of us slightly better than the other, but probably would suit neither of us well. Move that to a golf club and it should be fairly obvious to a sensible thinking individual that the standard fit golf club that you would have both of us use will have the same effect as a fixed drivers seat; it will allow neither of us to start from the best address position and consequently our ability to perform will to some degree be compromised.

Actually even club-fitters admit that is not simply a case that tall people require longer clubs and more diminutive players shorter.

If you think fitting works for you fine but nobody can conclusively prove that it will make a difference to all players.

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

Lol who's ridiculing it. My only point is that club fitting makes no discernible difference to a golfers score. There are a long list of things that will make a difference and club fitting is rightly near or at the bottom.

Define discernable.

Let's see if we can find some terms we agree on 😉

 

[guest100718]

Will it instantly knock shots of someone's handicap as j have seen claimed many times.?